Field extensions and degree of odd prime numbers

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of field extensions related to an odd prime number \( p \) and the real part of the complex exponential \( e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}} \). Participants explore the relationships between the fields \( \mathbb{Q}(a) \) and \( \mathbb{Q}(e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}) \), specifically focusing on their degrees and irreducibility.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that to show \( \mathbb{Q}(a) \leq \mathbb{Q}(e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}) \), it suffices to demonstrate that \( a \in \mathbb{Q}(e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}) \).
  • Participants discuss the method to find the degree of the irreducible polynomial \( \text{Irr}(e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}, \mathbb{Q}(a)) \) and express uncertainty about how to proceed.
  • One participant suggests that the polynomial \( x^2 - 2ax + 1 \) can be shown to be irreducible over \( \mathbb{Q}(a) \) to establish the degree of the extension.
  • There is a discussion about whether it is necessary to prove that \( \mathbb{Q}(a) \) and \( \mathbb{Q}(e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}) \) are fields, with some participants expressing that this should not be necessary due to their definitions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the relationships between the fields and the need to show certain properties, but there is uncertainty regarding the necessity of proving that the fields are indeed fields and how to find the irreducible polynomials.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the steps needed to establish irreducibility and the degrees of the field extensions, indicating that some assumptions may be missing or that the discussion is contingent on definitions and properties of algebraic elements.

mathmari
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Hey! :o

Let $p$ be an odd prime number. We set $a=Re \left (e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}\right )$.
Show that:

1) $$\mathbb{Q}(a)\leq \mathbb{Q}(e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}) \text{ and } \left [\mathbb{Q} \left (e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}} \right ):\mathbb{Q}(a)\right ]=2$$
2) $$[\mathbb{Q}(a):\mathbb{Q}]=\frac{p-1}{2}$$

1) To show that $ \mathbb{Q}(a)\leq \mathbb{Q} \left ( e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}\right ) $ we have to show that $a \in \mathbb{Q}(a) \Rightarrow a \in \mathbb{Q} \left (e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}\right ) $, right ??

$a = Re \left (e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}\right )=\frac{1}{2} \left ( e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}+\overline{e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}}\right )=\frac{1}{2} \left ( e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}+e^{\frac{-2\pi i}{p}}\right )=\frac{1}{2} \left ( e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}+\left( e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}\right )^{-1} \right ) \in \mathbb{Q} \left (e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}\right )$

Is this correct?? (Wondering)To find $ \left [\mathbb{Q}\left (e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}\right ):\mathbb{Q}(a)\right ]$ we have to find the degree of $Irr\left (e^{\frac{2 \pi I}{p}},\mathbb{Q}(a)\right )$, right?
But how could we do that?? (Wondering)2) How could we find $Irr(a,\mathbb{Q})$ ?? (Wondering)
 
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mathmari said:
1) To show that $ \mathbb{Q}(a)\leq \mathbb{Q} \left ( e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}\right ) $ we have to show that $a \in \mathbb{Q}(a) \Rightarrow a \in \mathbb{Q} \left (e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}\right ) $, right ??

$a = Re \left (e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}\right )=\frac{1}{2} \left ( e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}+\overline{e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}}\right )=\frac{1}{2} \left ( e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}+e^{\frac{-2\pi i}{p}}\right )=\frac{1}{2} \left ( e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}+\left( e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}\right )^{-1} \right ) \in \mathbb{Q} \left (e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}\right )$

Is this correct?? (Wondering)
It's right, but you don't need to say $a\in \Bbb Q(a) \Rightarrow a\in \Bbb Q\left(e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}\right)$. You're simply trying to show that $a\in \Bbb Q\left(e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}\right)$.

mathmari said:
To find $ \left [\mathbb{Q}\left (e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}\right ):\mathbb{Q}(a)\right ]$ we have to find the degree of $Irr\left (e^{\frac{2 \pi I}{p}},\mathbb{Q}(a)\right )$, right?
But how could we do that?? (Wondering)
Yes. Let $z = e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}$. Since $a = \frac{z + z^{-1}}{2}$, multiplying both sides by $2z$ yields $2az = z^2 + 1$, or $z^2 - 2az + 1 = 0$. Show that $x^2 - 2ax + 1 \in \Bbb Q(a)[x]$ is $\text{Irr}(z: \Bbb Q(a))$.

mathmari said:
2) How could we find $Irr(a,\mathbb{Q})$ ?? (Wondering)

There's no need. Since $\Bbb Q \le \Bbb Q(a) \le Q(z)$, we have

$$[\Bbb Q(a) : \Bbb Q] = \frac{[\Bbb Q(z) : \Bbb Q]}{[\Bbb Q(z) : \Bbb Q(a)]}.$$

Since $[\Bbb Q(z) : \Bbb Q] = p - 1$ and $[\Bbb Q(z) : \Bbb Q(a)] = 2$, it follows that $[\Bbb Q(a) : \Bbb Q] = \frac{p-1}{2}$.
 
Euge said:
It's right, but you don't need to say $a\in \Bbb Q(a) \Rightarrow a\in \Bbb Q\left(e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}\right)$. You're simply trying to show that $a\in \Bbb Q\left(e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}\right)$.

Does it stand that $\mathbb{Q}(a) \leq \mathbb{Q}\left(e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}\right)$ when we show that $a\in \Bbb Q\left(e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}\right)$, because $a\in \Bbb Q\left(e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}\right)$ means that $\mathbb{Q}(a) \subseteq \mathbb{Q}\left(e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}\right)$ and since $\mathbb{Q}(a)$ and $\mathbb{Q}\left(e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}\right)$ are fields, we have that $\mathbb{Q}(a) \leq \mathbb{Q}\left(e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}\right)$ ?? (Wondering)
 
mathmari said:
Does it stand that $\mathbb{Q}(a) \leq \mathbb{Q}\left(e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}\right)$ when we show that $a\in \Bbb Q\left(e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}\right)$, because $a\in \Bbb Q\left(e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}\right)$ means that $\mathbb{Q}(a) \subseteq \mathbb{Q}\left(e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}\right)$ and since $\mathbb{Q}(a)$ and $\mathbb{Q}\left(e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}\right)$ are fields, we have that $\mathbb{Q}(a) \leq \mathbb{Q}\left(e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}\right)$ ?? (Wondering)

Yes :D
 
Euge said:
Yes :D

Ok! Do we have to prove that $\mathbb{Q}(a)$ and $\mathbb{Q}\left(e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}\right)$ are fields?? (Wondering)
 
mathmari said:
Ok! Do we have to prove that $\mathbb{Q}(a)$ and $\mathbb{Q}\left(e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}\right)$ are fields?? (Wondering)

I would hope not, since by definition, $\Bbb Q(a)$ is the smallest field containing $\Bbb Q$ and $a$, and similarly for $\Bbb Q(e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}})$.
 
mathmari said:
Ok! Do we have to prove that $\mathbb{Q}(a)$ and $\mathbb{Q}\left(e^{\frac{2\pi i}{p}}\right)$ are fields?? (Wondering)

$a$ and $\exp(2\pi i/p)$ are algebraics over $\Bbb Q$ and field while adjoined with algebraic are...?
 

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