Find $A_0$ in Root Mean Square & Parseval's Theorem

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the coefficient $A_0$ in the context of root mean square (RMS) calculations and Parseval's Theorem, particularly in relation to Fourier series expansions. Participants explore the implications of the average value being zero and how this affects the determination of $A_0$ in various scenarios.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that the average $\langle x \rangle$ is zero and questions how to find a nonzero value for $A_0$, given that $A_0 = \langle x \rangle$.
  • Another participant provides a formula for $A_0$ as the integral of $x$ over the interval, reinforcing that it is defined as the average value.
  • Some participants introduce a scenario where $A_n$ and $f_n$ are defined, raising concerns about division by zero when calculating $A_0$.
  • A later reply suggests assigning a special value to $A_0$ by taking the limit of $f_n$ as $n$ approaches zero, proposing a definition for $f_0$ and subsequently for $A_0$.
  • Uncertainty is expressed regarding the proper balancing of parentheses in the mathematical expressions presented.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the definition of $A_0$ as related to the average value, but there is disagreement on how to handle cases where division by zero occurs, leading to multiple competing views on the appropriate approach to defining $A_0$.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved mathematical steps regarding the handling of limits and the balancing of parentheses in the expressions for $A_0$ and $f_n$. The discussion also highlights the dependence on definitions and the implications of the average being zero.

Dustinsfl
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I am reading about the root mean square and Parseval's Theorem but I don't understand how we find $A_0$.

So it says the average $\langle x\rangle$ is zero and the $x_{\text{RMS}} = \sqrt{\langle x^2\rangle}$ where
$$
\langle x^2\rangle = \frac{1}{\tau}\int_{-\tau/2}^{\tau/2}x^2dt
$$
The Fourier expansion of $x(t)$ is
$$
x(t) = \sum_{n = 0}^{\infty}A_n\cos(n\omega t - \delta_n).
$$
Then we obtain an integral of a double sum which simplifies down to
$$
\langle x^2\rangle = A_0^2 + \frac{1}{2}\sum_{n = 1}^{\infty}A_n^2.
$$
Then there is a note that $A_0 = \langle x\rangle$ which is supposed to be zero. How do I find the nonzero $A_0$ value?
 
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dwsmith said:
I am reading about the root mean square and Parseval's Theorem but I don't understand how we find $A_0$.

So it says the average $\langle x\rangle$ is zero and the $x_{\text{RMS}} = \sqrt{\langle x^2\rangle}$ where
$$
\langle x^2\rangle = \frac{1}{\tau}\int_{-\tau/2}^{\tau/2}x^2dt
$$
The Fourier expansion of $x(t)$ is
$$
x(t) = \sum_{n = 0}^{\infty}A_n\cos(n\omega t - \delta_n).
$$
Then we obtain an integral of a double sum which simplifies down to
$$
\langle x^2\rangle = A_0^2 + \frac{1}{2}\sum_{n = 1}^{\infty}A_n^2.
$$
Then there is a note that $A_0 = \langle x\rangle$ which is supposed to be zero. How do I find the nonzero $A_0$ value?

$A_0$ is the first coefficient of the Fourier series transform, which is in your case:

$$A_0 = \frac 1 \tau \int_{-\frac \tau 2}^{\frac \tau 2} (x) dx = \langle x \rangle$$
 
If $A_n$ and $f_n$ are defined as
$$
A_n = \frac{f_n}{\sqrt{\omega_0^2 -n^2\omega^2)^2+4\beta^2n^2\omega^2}}
$$
and
$$
f_n = \frac{2}{\pi n}\sin\left(\frac{\pi n \Delta\tau}{\tau}\right),
$$
how do I find $A_0$ here since $f_n$ would have a division by 0.
 
Last edited:
dwsmith said:
If $A_n$ and $f_n$ are defined as
$$
A_n = \frac{f_n}{\sqrt{\omega_0^2 -n^2\omega^2)^2+4\beta^2n^2\omega^2}}
$$
and
$$
f_n = \frac{2}{\pi n}\sin\left(\frac{\pi n \Delta\tau}{\tau}\right),
$$
how do I find $A_0$ here since $f_n$ would have a division by 0.

Yep.
That would mean that $A_0$ is not defined.
So we'd have to assign it a special value.

As a possibility you could choose the limit when n approaches zero.

$$f_0 \overset{def}{=} \lim_{n \to 0} f_n = \lim_{n \to 0} \frac{2}{\pi n}\sin\left(\frac{\pi n \Delta\tau}{\tau}\right) = \frac {2 \Delta\tau} {\tau}$$
$$A_0 \overset{def}{=} \frac{\frac {2 \Delta\tau} {\tau}}{\sqrt{\omega_0^2 -0^2 \cdot \omega^2)^2+4\beta^2 \cdot 0^2 \cdot \omega^2}}$$
I'm not sure how the parenthesis should be balanced, so I'll leave it like this.
 

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