Find accelerations- Angular and linear

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a physics problem involving a pulley system with two weights, focusing on the calculation of angular and linear accelerations. Participants explore the relationships between tension, torque, and acceleration in the context of this system.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether the tension in the string is the same for both weights, suggesting that if the system were in equilibrium, the tensions would need to differ due to the different distances from the pivot.
  • Equations relating torque to angular acceleration and force are proposed, including $\Sigma \tau=I\alpha$ and $\tau=Fr$.
  • Participants express the need to ensure that the speeds of the masses match the speed of the wheel to which they are attached.
  • There is a discussion about the signs of the accelerations, with some suggesting that one acceleration should be positive and the other negative, while others emphasize the importance of defining a consistent positive direction.
  • Concerns are raised about the need for clarity in the directions of the forces and accelerations, with a suggestion to include additional equations for the speeds of the masses.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether the tensions are the same or different, with some arguing for different tensions based on equilibrium considerations. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the correct signs for the accelerations and the implications for the equations involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of defining assumptions regarding the directions of forces and accelerations, which may affect the formulation of equations. There is also mention of the need for a diagram to clarify the setup of the problem.

cbarker1
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Dear Every Body,

I need some help. First question: Is the tension of the string is the same or different?
A pulley of moment of inertia 2.7 kg [FONT=&quot]· m2 is mounted on a wall as shown in the following figure. Light strings are wrapped around two circumferences of the pulley and weights are attached. Assume the following data: r1 = 47 cm,
r2 = 20 cm,
m1 = 1.0 kg,
and m2 = 1.9 kg.

10-7-p-092.png
(a)
What is the angular acceleration in rad/$s^2$ of the pulley?


(b)
What is the linear acceleration (in m/s2) of the weights?
a1

a2

 
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Hi Cbarker1,

Which formulas do you have that:
- relate torque to angular acceleration?
- relate torque to force?

Can we apply them?
 
I like Serena said:
Hi Cbarker1,

Which formulas do you have that:
- relate torque to angular acceleration?
- relate torque to force?

Can we apply them?

$\Sigma \tau=I\alpha$
$\tau=Fr$
$\Sigma F=ma$
For the first hanging mass:
$m_1g-T=m_1a_1$
$T=m_1g-m_1a_1$
For the second hanging mass:
$T=m_2a_2+m_2g$
 
Cbarker1 said:
$\Sigma \tau=I\alpha$
$\tau=Fr$
$\Sigma F=ma$
For the first hanging mass:
$m_1g-T=m_1a_1$
$T=m_1g-m_1a_1$
For the second hanging mass:
$T=m_2a_2+m_2g$

Good!
We also need that the speed of both masses match the speed that the wheel turns (where the masses are attached).
Can we also catch those in formulas?
 
Do the mass have same tension?
 
Cbarker1 said:
Do the mass have same tension?

If the system were in equilibrium, the corresponding torques would have to cancel.
Since they are at different distances, that means that in equilibrium the tensions have to be different.
So we can't assume that the tensions are the same, and we have to keep them like $T_1$ and $T_2$ instead of just $T$.
 
I like Serena said:
If the system were in equilibrium, the corresponding torques would have to cancel.
Since they are at different distances, that means that in equilibrium the tensions have to be different.
So we can't assume that the tensions are the same, and we have to keep them like $T_1$ and $T_2$ instead of just $T$.
$$T_2=1.9a_2+1.9g$$
$$T_1=g-a_1$$
$$T_1r_1+T_2r_2=I\alpha $$
 
Cbarker1 said:
$$T_2=1.9a_2+1.9g$$
$$T_1=g-a_1$$
$$T_1r_1+T_2r_2=I\alpha $$

Let's be careful with our signs.
The tensions that act on the masses both point upward yes?
Ideally we pick a direction up or down that we call positive and then stick to it.
How about picking 'up' to be 'positive' (it seems you already did)?

Which directions did you pick for $a_1$ and $a_2$?
Since we don't know yet if they are up or down, can we pick them both to be in the 'positive' direction?
If we do, there is a sign that we need to correct.

As for the angular acceleration, the torques oppose each other do they not?
That means one of them should have a minus sign.

Can we also include 2 more equations for the speeds of the masses that each must equal the speed of the wheel where the strings attach?
 
I think $$a_1$$ should be positive and $$a_2$$ should be negative.
 
Last edited:
  • #10
Cbarker1 said:
I think $$a_1$$ should be positive and $$a_2$$ should be negative.

That's also fine.
A drawing would be nice then, since otherwise I have no clue which vector points where.
 
  • #11
here is the picture
 

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