Find the image: F: N * N -> R , F(x) = m^2 + 2n

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the image of the function defined as F: N × N → R, where F(x) = m² + 2n. Participants explore the implications of different definitions of natural numbers and how they affect the image of the function.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the image of F is N, while others argue that it depends on whether 0 is included in the definition of N.
  • One participant notes that if 0 is included in N, then Im(F) = N, but if 0 is not included, then Im(F) = N \ {1, 2, 4} due to the absence of pairs (m, n) that satisfy certain equations.
  • It is mentioned that all positive odd numbers greater than or equal to 3 can be generated by pairs of the form (1, n), and all positive even numbers greater than or equal to 6 can be generated by pairs of the form (2, m).
  • Another participant confirms that they were told N does not include 0 and seeks clarification on the notation used for set difference.
  • One participant expresses a desire to clarify the problem's context by moving the topic to a more appropriate forum category.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the definition of N affects the image of the function, but multiple competing views remain regarding the inclusion of 0 in N and its implications for the image of F.

Contextual Notes

There is uncertainty regarding the definition of natural numbers, which impacts the conclusions drawn about the image of the function. The discussion also highlights the notation for set difference, which may not be universally understood.

KOO
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F:N*N -> R, F(x) = m^2 + 2n

I think the answer is N. Am I right?
 
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KOO said:
I think the answer is N. Am I right?

Based on your title, we have that $F:\mathbb{N}\times\mathbb{N}\rightarrow \mathbb{R}$ ($\mathbb{N}\ast\mathbb{N}$ makes no sense at all) where $F(x) = m^2+2n$ (I assume here that $x=(m,n)$).

Now, depending on who you talk to, $\mathbb{N}$ may or may not include zero (the general consensus from what I've seen is that $0\notin\mathbb{N}$, but there are some professors/authors that include zero in their definition of the natural numbers; hence why I think it's best to clarify this right from the get go); that is, either $\mathbb{N}=\{x\in\mathbb{Z} : x\geq 0\}$ or $\mathbb{N}=\{x\in\mathbb{Z}: x\geq 1\}$.

If $0\in\mathbb{N}$, then $\mathrm{Im}(F)=\mathbb{N}$. If $0\notin\mathbb{N}$, then $\mathrm{Im}(F) = \mathbb{N}\backslash\{1,2,4\}$ since there aren't pairs $(m,n)\in\mathbb{N}\times\mathbb{N}$ such that $m^2+2n=1$, $m^2+2n=2$, or $m^2+2n=4$.

(In $\mathrm{Im}(F)$, note that all the positive odd numbers greater than or equal to 3 are generated by pairs of the form $(1,n)$ for $n\in\mathbb{N}$ since $1^2+2n=2n+1$, and all positive even numbers greater than or equal to 6 are generated by pairs of the form $(2,m)$ for $m\in\mathbb{N}$ since $2^2+2m = 2(m+2)$; this is why I can claim that $F(\mathbb{N}\times\mathbb{N}) = \mathbb{N}\backslash\{1,2,4\}$ for $0\notin\mathbb{N}$.)

I hope this makes sense!
 
Chris L T521 said:
Based on your title, we have that $F:\mathbb{N}\times\mathbb{N}\rightarrow \mathbb{R}$ ($\mathbb{N}\ast\mathbb{N}$ makes no sense at all) where $F(x) = m^2+2n$ (I assume here that $x=(m,n)$).

Now, depending on who you talk to, $\mathbb{N}$ may or may not include zero (the general consensus from what I've seen is that $0\notin\mathbb{N}$, but there are some professors/authors that include zero in their definition of the natural numbers; hence why I think it's best to clarify this right from the get go); that is, either $\mathbb{N}=\{x\in\mathbb{Z} : x\geq 0\}$ or $\mathbb{N}=\{x\in\mathbb{Z}: x\geq 1\}$.

If $0\in\mathbb{N}$, then $\mathrm{Im}(F)=\mathbb{N}$. If $0\notin\mathbb{N}$, then $\mathrm{Im}(F) = \mathbb{N}\backslash\{1,2,4\}$ since there aren't pairs $(m,n)\in\mathbb{N}\times\mathbb{N}$ such that $m^2+2n=1$, $m^2+2n=2$, or $m^2+2n=4$.

(In $\mathrm{Im}(F)$, note that all the positive odd numbers greater than or equal to 3 are generated by pairs of the form $(1,n)$ for $n\in\mathbb{N}$ since $1^2+2n=2n+1$, and all positive even numbers greater than or equal to 6 are generated by pairs of the form $(2,m)$ for $m\in\mathbb{N}$ since $2^2+2m = 2(m+2)$; this is why I can claim that $F(\mathbb{N}\times\mathbb{N}) = \mathbb{N}\backslash\{1,2,4\}$ for $0\notin\mathbb{N}$.)

I hope this makes sense!

Actually I had this question on a test and you're right x=(m,n) and we're told N does not include 0.

Anyways what does \ mean?
 
KOO said:
Actually I had this question on a test and you're right x=(m,n) and we're told N does not include 0.

Anyways what does \ mean?

Ah, that's one notation for set difference. I could have also written it as $\mathbb{N}-\{1,2,4\}$.
 
KOO said:
F:N*N -> R, F(x) = m^2 + 2n

I think the answer is N. Am I right?

I just wanted to let you know that I moved this topic from Calculus to Pre-Calculus (this is a better fit) and copied the problem from the title into the body of the first post. It's okay to put the problem in the title when it is short, but we ask that it also be included in the post as well for clarity. :D
 

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