Find the rate that the distance between two projectiles is changing

  • Thread starter Thread starter isukatphysics69
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Projectiles Rate
Click For Summary
The discussion focuses on finding the rate at which the distance between two projectiles is changing at t = pi/2, using their parametric equations. The initial approach involves applying the distance formula and taking its derivative, but the user finds this method overly complicated. Participants suggest an alternative method using vector notation, which simplifies the calculations by focusing on the squared distance and employing the chain rule. They recommend evaluating the expression for t = pi/2 and sketching the projectile paths for clarity. Overall, the conversation emphasizes the importance of choosing a more efficient method for solving the problem.
isukatphysics69
Messages
453
Reaction score
8

Homework Statement


The parameteric equations for the paths of two projectiles are given below. At what rate is the distance between the two objects changing at t = pi/2?

Homework Equations


x1=12cos(2t) y1 = 6sin(2t)
x2=6cos(t) y2 = 7sin(t)

The Attempt at a Solution


I am completely stuck. So I was thinking that I should use the distance formula

sqrt( (6cos(t) - 12cos(2t))2 + ( 7sin(t) - 6sin(2t))2))

then take the derivative of that then plug in pi/2 but that got really ugly and I think I am overcomplicating it.

I am looking for a hint here that is all. completely stuck
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Physics news on Phys.org
isukatphysics69 said:
I am completely stuck. So I was thinking that I should use the distance formula

sqrt( (6cos(t) - 12cos(2t))2 + ( 7sin(t) - 6sin(2t))2))

then take the derivative of that then plug in pi/2 but that got really ugly and I think I am overcomplicating it.
Why do you believe that is over complicating it?

Also, if you know the chain rule very well the derivative isn’t that bad.

Edit: ignore the deleted part (if you saw it) about the algebra trick. I tried it and it was a bad idea. Pretty beautiful, but not less complicated.
 
  • Like
Likes isukatphysics69 and Delta2
isukatphysics69 said:
I am looking for a hint here that is all. completely stuck
Your method is fine, but there is a way that's a bit less tedious.

Let ##\vec{r}_i = x_i \hat i + y_i \hat j## and ##\vec{r} = \vec{r}_1 - \vec{r}_2##. The distance ##r## between the two particles is ##\| \vec{r} \|##, so you have
$$r^2 = \vec{r}\cdot\vec{r} = (\vec{r}_1 - \vec{r}_2)\cdot(\vec{r}_1 - \vec{r}_2) = \vec{r}_1\cdot \vec{r}_1 - 2 \vec{r}_1 \cdot \vec{r}_2 + \vec{r}_2\cdot\vec{r}_2.$$ Keeping everything in terms of vectors, calculate ##d(r^2)/dt## and then evaluate the resulting expression for ##t=\pi/2##. Finally, relate ##dr/dt## to ##d(r^2)/dt##.

You might find it helpful to sketch the paths of the two particles and their locations at ##t=\pi/2##.
 
  • Like
Likes isukatphysics69 and Delta2
@vela methods looks nice and it might save you the trouble of calculating a single complex derivative at the cost of calculating dot products and simpler derivatives instead.

I tend to agree with @Isaac0427 the derivative looks scary but it isn't so hard if you know the chain rule well.
 
  • Like
Likes isukatphysics69
The book claims the answer is that all the magnitudes are the same because "the gravitational force on the penguin is the same". I'm having trouble understanding this. I thought the buoyant force was equal to the weight of the fluid displaced. Weight depends on mass which depends on density. Therefore, due to the differing densities the buoyant force will be different in each case? Is this incorrect?

Similar threads

Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
Replies
2
Views
3K
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
Replies
15
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K