Finding a+b Given f(x)=x^3-6x^2+17x

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the sum \(a + b\) given the function \(f(x) = x^3 - 6x^2 + 17x\) and the conditions \(f(a) = 16\) and \(f(b) = 20\). Participants explore various methods to approach the problem, including graphical interpretations, algebraic manipulations, and assumptions about the nature of \(a\) and \(b\).

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes the rotational symmetry of the graph of \(f\) about the point \((2, 18)\) and concludes that \(a + b = 4\) based on this symmetry.
  • Another participant presents an algebraic approach, transforming the equations for \(f(a)\) and \(f(b)\) into a form that leads to the conclusion \(a + b = 4\), while emphasizing the condition that \(a, b \in \mathbb{R}\).
  • A third participant provides a similar algebraic method, arriving at \(k = 4\) for \(k = a + b\), but expresses concern about the validity of their method and the uniqueness of the solution.
  • One participant challenges the previous claims, suggesting that \(k = 4\) may not be the only solution and that the individual equations could yield different results.
  • Another participant adds that the problem should explicitly state the condition \(a, b \in \mathbb{R}\) to ensure the conclusion \(a + b = 4\) is valid.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally arrive at the conclusion that \(a + b = 4\) through various methods, but there is disagreement regarding the uniqueness of this solution and the assumptions required for it to hold true.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express that the solution may depend on the assumption that \(a\) and \(b\) are real numbers, indicating that without this condition, the conclusion may not be valid.

anemone
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If $$f(x)=x^3-6x^2+17x$$ and $$f(a)=16$$ and $$f(b)=20$$, find $$a+b$$.
 
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Re: Find a+b.

anemone said:
If $$f(x)=x^3-6x^2+17x$$ and $$f(a)=16$$ and $$f(b)=20$$, find $$a+b$$.
The graph of $f$ has a rotational symmetry about the point $(2,18)$. In fact, you can check that $f(2-x) + f(2+x) = 18+18 =36$. But $36 = 16+20$, and it follows that if $f(a) = 16$ and $f(b) = 20$ then $a=2-x$ and $b=2+x$ for some $x$. Therefore $a+b=4.$
 
Re: Find a+b.

Another way. We have $$f(a)=16\Leftrightarrow (a-2)^3+5a-8=0\\f(b)=20\Leftrightarrow (b-2)^3+5b-12=0$$ Denoting $\alpha=a-2,\;\beta =b-2$: $$f(a)=16\Leftrightarrow \alpha^3+5\alpha+2=0\\f(b)=20\Leftrightarrow \beta^3+5\beta-2=0$$ But if $r$ is a root of $x^3+5x+2$ iff $-r$ is a root of $x^3+5x-2$ so, $$0=\alpha+\beta=a-2+b-2\Rightarrow a+b=4$$ P.S. Of course, this is valid for $a,b\in\mathbb{R}$, otherwise $a+b$ can be $\neq 4$.
 
Re: Find a+b.

As always, thanks to Opalg and Fernando for participating in this problem and to be honest, I learned a lot from both of the solutions.

I solved this problem differently and here goes my solution:

From
$$a^3-6a^2+17a-16=0$$ and $$b^3-6b^2+17b-20=0$$,

We add the equations to find that

$$a^3+b^3-6a^2-6b^2+17a+17b-16-20=0$$

$$(a^3+b^3)-6(a^2+b^2)+17(a+b)-36=0$$

$$((a+b)^3-3ab(a+b))-6((a+b)^2-2ab)+17(a+b)-36=0$$

By replacing $$k=a+b$$ yields

$$(k^3-3abk)-6(k^2-2ab)+17k-36=0$$

This simplifies to

$$k^3-6k^2-36+(17-3ab)k+12ab=0$$

$$k^3-6k^2-36-(3ab-17)k+4(3ab-17)+4(17)=0$$

$$k^3-6k^2+32+(3ab-17)(4-k)=0$$

$$(k+2)(k-4)^2+(3ab-17)(4-k)=0$$

Therefore, we can conclude that $$k=4$$ must be true.

This implies $$a+b=4$$.

But hey, it is very obvious that my method is the least impressive/worst one...(bh):o...
 
Re: Find a+b.

anemone said:
As always, thanks to Opalg and Fernando for participating in this problem and to be honest, I learned a lot from both of the solutions.

I solved this problem differently and here goes my solution:

From
$$a^3-6a^2+17a-16=0$$ and $$b^3-6b^2+17b-20=0$$,

We add the equations to find that

$$a^3+b^3-6a^2-6b^2+17a+17b-16-20=0$$

$$(a^3+b^3)-6(a^2+b^2)+17(a+b)-36=0$$

$$((a+b)^3-3ab(a+b))-6((a+b)^2-2ab)+17(a+b)-36=0$$

By replacing $$k=a+b$$ yields

$$(k^3-3abk)-6(k^2-2ab)+17k-36=0$$

This simplifies to

$$k^3-6k^2-36+(17-3ab)k+12ab=0$$

$$k^3-6k^2-36-(3ab-17)k+4(3ab-17)+4(17)=0$$

$$k^3-6k^2+32+(3ab-17)(4-k)=0$$

$$(k+2)(k-4)^2+(3ab-17)(4-k)=0$$

Therefore, we can conclude that $$k=4$$ must be true.

This implies $$a+b=4$$.

But hey, it is very obvious that my method is the least impressive/worst one...(bh):o...

Hey anemone! ;)

I'm afraid your solution has a couple of flaws in it. (bh)

The solution $$k=4$$ is only 1 of the possible solutions.
There may be more solutions (although there aren't any).

Furthermore, it is only a solution for the sum of the 2 equations being equal to zero.
There is no guarantee that the individual equations are zero.
They may still have opposite results (although they don't).

Sorry. :o
 
Re: Find a+b.

The problem should say:

If $$f(x)=x^3-6x^2+17x$$ and $$f(a)=16$$ and $$f(b)=20$$ with $a,b\in\mathbb{R}$, find $$a+b$$.

Oherwise, we can't guarantee $a+b=4$. I solved the question with that additional hypothesis.
 

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