Finding Event Horizon & Ergosphere: Derivations & Formulas

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of the event horizon and ergosphere of the Kerr metric, focusing on the derivations and formulas necessary for these calculations. Participants explore theoretical aspects and seek references to support their understanding.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses difficulty in finding proper derivations or formulas for the event horizon and ergosphere of the Kerr metric.
  • Another participant suggests using the Boyer-Lindquist form of the metric and discusses the divergence of ##g_{rr}##, leading to the identification of the event horizons through the roots of the equation ##1-2m/r + a^2/r^2 = 0##.
  • The same participant describes the properties of the 3-metric induced on the surfaces defined by the event horizons and discusses the nature of null trajectories in relation to these surfaces.
  • Regarding ergospheres, the participant explains that they are regions where remaining at fixed spatial coordinates is impossible, detailing the conditions under which this occurs.
  • Several participants request references to further understand the arguments presented, indicating a desire for more detailed explanations and sources.
  • One participant mentions that any book on black hole solutions should suffice, specifically referencing Poisson's "A Relativist's Toolkit" as a good resource.
  • Another participant emphasizes the need for the original poster to conduct their own research and not expect others to provide basic information readily available in textbooks or online.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the existence of established formulas and derivations in general relativity textbooks, but there is disagreement regarding the original poster's ability to find these resources and the expectation of assistance from others.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express frustration over the original poster's repeated requests for basic information, suggesting that the discussion may be limited by the poster's prior research efforts and understanding of available resources.

user1139
Messages
71
Reaction score
8
Homework Statement:: See below.
Relevant Equations:: See below.

I am trying to calculate the event horizon and ergosphere of the Kerr metric. However, I could not seem to find a proper derivation or formula to calculate the event horizon and ergosphere. Could someone point me to the appropriate derivations or formulas?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • Haha
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Hamiltonian, PeroK, yucheng and 3 others
Thomas1 said:
Homework Statement:: See below.
Relevant Equations:: See below.

I am trying to calculate the event horizon and ergosphere of the Kerr metric. However, I could not seem to find a proper derivation or formula to calculate the event horizon and ergosphere. Could someone point me to the appropriate derivations or formulas?
What texts have you consulted?
 
Hey, sorry for the late reply, I've been a bit pre-occupied today and I'm currently fairly drunk.

It's most tractable to use the Boyer-Lindquist form of the metric, for which ##g_{rr}## is seen to diverge whenever ##1-2m/r + a^2/r^2 = 0##. The roots ##r_{\pm}## of this equation correspond to the inner and outer event horizons. One can show that the 3-metric ##\gamma_{ab}## induced on the 3-surfaces ##\Sigma_{\pm}## (defined by ##r = r_{\pm}## respectively, i.e. just put ##dr=0## and ##r=r_{\pm}## in the 4-metric) has vanishing determinant, thereby implying that for any ##p \in \Sigma_{\pm}## there exists a non-zero vector ##v^a## such that ##\gamma_{ab} v^b = 0 \implies \gamma_{ab} v^a v^b = 0 \implies ||v|| = 0##, i.e. a tangent vector to null curves (photon orbits) lying entirely within ##\Sigma_{\pm}##; it should then be clear that null trajectories starting at less than ##r_{+}## do not ever breach ##\Sigma_+##, for example.

As for the ergospheres, they are defined as the region within which it's not possible to remain at fixed spatial ##(r,\theta,\phi)##, for which a necessary condition is that the "still" trajectory (with tangent vector ##u = \partial/\partial t##) is spacelike (and therefore unattainable), ##g_{ab} u^a u^b = g_{tt} u^t u^t > 0 \implies g_{tt} > 0##, i.e.\begin{align*}
\frac{2mr}{r^2 + a^2 \cos^2{\theta}} - 1 > 0
\end{align*}the roots (##r_{\pm}^{\mathrm{e}}##, say) of which define the inner and outer surfaces of the ergosphere.
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Likes   Reactions: hutchphd, vanhees71, Hamiltonian and 2 others
@ergospherical could you list a reference or two on what you have written? I would like to read more about it.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: vanhees71
Any book on black hole solutions ought to do really; the last chapter of Poisson's book, "A Relativist's Toolkit", is good, for instance.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: vanhees71
@ergospherical I see. However, I’m trying to understand specifically your argument. Hence, I’m hoping there’s a reference that details the arguments you laid out.
 
Thomas1 said:
@ergospherical I see. However, I’m trying to understand specifically your argument. Hence, I’m hoping there’s a reference that details the arguments you laid out.
https://arxiv.org/pdf/0706.0622.pdf

It took me less than a minute to find that!
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: vanhees71 and ergospherical
Thomas1 said:
@ergospherical I see. However, I’m trying to understand specifically your argument. Hence, I’m hoping there’s a reference that details the arguments you laid out.
Which bits are bothering you? (Then we can try and explain.)
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: hutchphd
  • #10
Thomas1 said:
@ergospherical could you list a reference or two on what you have written? I would like to read more about it.
You have already been asked what texts you have already consulted. Pretty much any GR textbook will give the formulas you are asking for. So will many published papers, such as the one @PeroK has referenced (which is specifically intended for pedagogy). So if you are seriously saying you can't find the formulas you are looking for, you need to look harder. Once you have done that, if you have questions about something specific in whatever reference you find that you decide to use, you can start a new thread asking those questions and giving the specific reference. But expecting others here to hold your hand and lead you to something that can be found in any GR textbook, or in a minute or two of online search as @PeroK did, is not reasonable.

This thread is closed.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: vanhees71, berkeman and phinds

Similar threads

  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 46 ·
2
Replies
46
Views
8K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
1K
  • · Replies 51 ·
2
Replies
51
Views
5K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 25 ·
Replies
25
Views
4K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 29 ·
Replies
29
Views
4K