Finding potencial of forces - answer differs from solutions

In summary: You are given three components of a vector field, each a function of only two variables. So, you can write the vector field in terms of a single function U(x,y,z) - the potential function. So, delta U = -(Fx dx + Fy dy + Fz dz). That's a total differential so it implies the force is conservative. So, the next thing to do is find a U(x,y,z) such that it's gradient is the given vector field. That's easy to do in this case. Just integrate each component with respect to its respective variable. Do that and see if you get the same potential function as Kibble.
  • #1
Gabriel Henrique
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Homework Statement
3.1 (Kibble's Classical Mechanics) Find which of the following forces are conservative, and for those that
are find the corresponding potential energy function (a and b are constants)
Relevant Equations
Fx = ax + by², Fy = az + 2bxy, Fz = ay + bz²

Fr = 2ar sin θ sin ϕ, Fθ = ar cosθ sin ϕ, Fϕ = ar cosϕ
The first force components:
Fx = ax + by², Fy = az + 2bxy, Fz = ay + bz²
I calculated the integral V=-∫Fdr, using dr=(dx,dy,dz)
The result I found was
-(1/2(ax²)+2azy+2bxy²+1/3bz³)
The answer in the book (Kibble's Classical Mechanics): -(1/2(ax²)+azy+bxy²+1/3bz³)The second force:
Fr = 2ar sin θ sin ϕ, Fθ = ar cosθ sin ϕ, Fϕ = ar cosϕ
I calculated the integral V=-∫Fdr, using dr=(dr,rdθ,rsinθdϕ)
The result I found was
-arsinθsinϕ(r+1)
The answer in the book (Kibble's Classical Mechanics): -ar²sinθsinϕ

Me and my colleagues can't find where we have mistaken. Can you help us? Our solutions are incorrect?
 
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  • #2
Gabriel Henrique said:
I calculated the integral V=-∫Fdr, using dr=(dx,dy,dz)
You probably mean V = -∫F⋅dr where the integrand is the scalar product of the vectors F and dr.
Kibble's answers are correct since they agree with F = - V. You didn't show any details of your calculation, so we can't tell you where you made your mistakes. Your approach should yield the correct answer. But this is not the only way to go.

For your method, note that the integral is along some path that connects your point of zero potential energy to the point where you are calculating V. It won't matter what particular path you choose, but you need to choose a path. (Pick a path that makes things easy!) When integrating along your path, be sure to think about what the values of x,y,z [or r, θ, φ] are along your particular path.

Edit: I assumed that you had already shown that the forces are conservative. If not, then you need to do that first as @kuruman points out in the next post.
 
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  • #3
Before you find the potential function, you need to establish that the forces can be derived from one. How did you do that? You can calculate a line integral for each force, but it doesn't mean anything if it is not path independent.
 

1. What is the difference between potential forces and solutions?

Potential forces refer to the forces that have the potential to cause motion or change in an object, while solutions refer to the specific ways in which those forces can be solved or utilized to achieve a desired outcome.

2. How do you find the potential of forces in a given situation?

To find the potential forces in a given situation, you must first identify all the forces acting on an object and then determine their magnitude and direction. Once this information is known, you can calculate the potential of each force using mathematical equations or diagrams.

3. What factors affect the potential of forces in a system?

The potential of forces in a system can be affected by various factors such as the type and magnitude of the forces, the distance between the objects, and the mass and velocity of the objects. Other factors may also include external factors such as friction, air resistance, and gravity.

4. How can understanding potential forces be useful in real-world applications?

Understanding potential forces is crucial in many real-world applications, such as engineering, physics, and design. By knowing the potential forces at play, we can predict and control the motion and behavior of objects, improve the efficiency of machines, and design structures that are safe and stable.

5. Can potential forces ever be completely eliminated?

In theory, it is possible to eliminate all potential forces in a system. However, in reality, it is nearly impossible to do so due to the presence of external forces and the constant motion and interactions of objects. By minimizing potential forces, we can achieve a state of equilibrium where the net force on an object is zero.

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