Finite Black Holes? Answers for Xap's Question

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the nature of black holes, specifically addressing the concept of mass in relation to singularities and the implications of black hole density. Participants explore the differences in mass among black holes and the idea of infinite mass, questioning common assumptions and interpretations in general relativity and quantum theory.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the idea that black holes can have infinite mass, noting that if one black hole is more massive than another, they cannot both be infinite.
  • Another participant asserts that black holes do not have infinite mass and asks for clarification on where this idea originated.
  • Some participants express confusion about the nature of singularities, suggesting that a singularity implies infinite mass, but they are beginning to reconsider this notion.
  • A reference to a Black Holes FAQ is provided, which discusses the relationship between mass density and black holes, indicating that density can be infinite while mass itself is not.
  • It is mentioned that current physics considers the mass of a black hole to shrink to a point (the singularity), leading to infinite density, but this remains an open question in the field.
  • Participants discuss the breakdown of general relativity (GR) and quantum theory when applied to black holes, particularly at the singularity, highlighting the complexities involved in these theories.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the nature of black hole mass and singularities. There are multiple competing views regarding the interpretation of infinite mass and density, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the definitions of mass and density, as well as the implications of singularities in mathematical representations of space-time. The relationship between general relativity and quantum theory in the context of black holes is also noted as a point of contention.

Xaphan
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please forgive my ignorance but, i was watching somthing in tv the other day about supermasive black holes, now my question is, if some black holes are more massive than others, how can their mass be infinite? if Blackhole A is more massive than black hole B then surly they can't both be infinite in mass.

been reading the fourm for months and never posted basically because i leave it to the people who know what they are talking about and I am sure you guys will put me straight

thanks, Xap
 
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Black holes do not have infinite mass! Could you explain where you got this idea.
 
i was under the impression that a black hole is a singualrity and thus "infinite" in mass
but I am getting the idea I am very wrong
 
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This Black Holes FAQ appears to be accurate and will answer your basic questions:

http://cosmology.berkeley.edu/Education/BHfaq.html#q5

There is a theory of black holes on a quantum scale that might be tested with the newest and biggest particle colliders. So they can be tiny. To me, the singularity means the laws of math break down, but I'm not sure what becomes infinite in the actual equations. Apparently it is not the mass.

I would add that it is the density of mass in a small volume which defines a "black hole." The curvature of space-time does not allow light (EM waves) to escape inside a radius known as the event horizon. The FAQ either describes or implies this interpretation.
 
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According to some theories, the black hole mass has shrunk to a point (the singularity) and therefore the mass DENSITY is infinite. Current physics has this as an open question.
 
mathman said:
According to some theories
:smile: You make GR sound so unrespectable.
 
Xaphan said:
i was under the impression that a black hole is a singualrity and thus "infinite" in mass
but I am getting the idea I am very wrong
A singularity is just a place where things stop behaving nicely. It's derived from the word "singular", meaning something like "being out of the ordinary" or "departing from general usage or expectation".

In this case, it signifies the fact that if we don't put a hole in our mathematical representation of space-time, then there will be one or more points inside that are mathematically obnoxious.
 
cesiumfrog said:
:smile: You make GR sound so unrespectable.
GR and quantum theory are both very accurate in their respective regimes. However, inside a black hole when they are needed together, the theory breaks down, particularly when describing the singularity.
 

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