Finite Size vs Point Size Hydrogen like Atoms

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the conceptual differences in binding energies between finite size hydrogen-like atoms and point-sized hydrogen-like atoms. Participants explore the implications of potential energy calculations and the nature of atomic models in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the difference in binding energies between finite size and point-sized atoms, suggesting that the potential energy differences could make ionization easier for finite size atoms.
  • Another participant expresses confusion over the term "point sized atoms," stating that such entities do not exist in theory or nature, and references the Rydberg constant's relation to the Bohr radius.
  • A third participant reiterates the initial question about binding energies but asserts that the two types of atoms in question do not exist, implying that no answer can be provided.
  • A further reply challenges the notion of distinguishing "inside" versus "outside" in the context of the ground state of hydrogen, questioning how to define regions based on electron probability density.
  • This participant also notes that both potential and kinetic energies must be described using probability distributions, emphasizing that their sum is a fixed value for the ground state of hydrogen.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the existence and definitions of point-sized atoms versus finite size atoms, leading to an unresolved discussion about binding energies and the implications of potential energy calculations.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of clarity on definitions of atomic models and the unresolved nature of potential energy calculations in relation to binding energies.

photomagnetic
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Ok my question:
what is the difference between the binding energies of these 2 types of atoms, conceptual wise, which one is greater?

I am assuming based on the easy calculations of the potential energy of the finite size atom ( inside and outside)
There is a difference between the potential energies of those 2 regions, and just because of that difference. It's easier to ionize the atom.
Am I correct?

Thank You
 
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I don't know what you mean by "point sized atoms", since they do not exist in either theory or in nature, but the Rydberg constant is inversely proportional to the Bohr radius.
 
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photomagnetic said:
what is the difference between the binding energies of these 2 types of atoms, conceptual wise, which one is greater?
Unfortunately there is no answer to your question because the two types of atom you are considering are not present to begin with.
 
photomagnetic said:
I am assuming based on the easy calculations of the potential energy of the finite size atom ( inside and outside)
There is a difference between the potential energies of those 2 regions,

How do you distinguish "inside" versus "outside" for e.g. the ground state of hydrogen, for which the electron probability density as a function of r looks like the right-hand graph below? Do you mean "r large enough that the probability density is negligible"? (It never actually reaches zero.)

fig3-4.jpg


(source: http://www.chemistry.mcmaster.ca/esam/Chapter_3/section_2.html)

Both the potential and kinetic energies of the electron must also be described using probability distributions. Their sum is of course a fixed number: -13.6 eV for the ground state of hydrogen.
 

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