Finite vs Ring Groups: Examining Theorems

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the relationship between theorems applicable to finite groups and their applicability to ring groups, specifically examining the nature of group rings as defined in the context of algebra.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether every theorem that holds for finite groups also holds for ring groups, seeking clarification on the implications of this relationship.
  • Another participant asks for clarification on the term "ring groups," indicating a need for precise definitions in the discussion.
  • A further contribution defines a group ring based on a commutative ring and a finite group, providing a formal structure for understanding the relationship between the two.
  • It is noted that while a finite group is a group, a group ring is a ring, suggesting that not all theorems applicable to groups can be directly applied to rings. An example is provided regarding cyclic groups and the absence of a corresponding cyclic ring.
  • Additionally, it is mentioned that the group ring contains a subring isomorphic to the original ring and a subset that forms a group isomorphic to the finite group, indicating a structural relationship between the two entities.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of theorems from finite groups to ring groups, with some suggesting limitations based on structural differences. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the extent of these limitations.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of definitions and structural characteristics when discussing theorems related to finite groups and ring groups, indicating that assumptions about group properties may not hold in the context of rings.

cbarker1
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Dear Everyone,

Does every theorem that holds for finite group holds for ring groups? Why or Why not?Thanks
Cbarker1
 
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What do you mean by “ring groups”?
 
A group ring defined as the following from Dummit and Foote:

Fix a commutative ring $R$ with identity $1\ne0$ and let $G=\{g_{1},g_{2},g_{3},...,g_{n}\}$ be any finite group with group operation written multiplicatively. A group ring, $RG$, of $G$ with coefficients in $R$ to be the set of all formal sum

$a_1g_1+a_2g_2+\cdots+a_ng_n$, $a_i\in R$, $1\le i\le n$
 
Well, note that $G$ is a group whereas $RG$ is a ring, so not every theorem about $G$ may be applicable to $RG$. For example, $G$ may be a cyclic group, but there is no such thing as a cyclic ring, so a theorem about cyclic groups may not make sense when applied to rings.

What you can say is that $RG$ contains a subring isomorphic to $R$, namely
$$\{a\cdot e_G:a\in R\}$$
as well as a subset which, with respect to multiplication, forms a group isomorphic to $G$, namely
$$\{1_R\cdot g:g\in G\}.$$
 

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