Finiteness of a converging random number series

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the finiteness of a series formed by randomly chosen points approaching zero, specifically examining whether the sum of these points remains finite as they converge towards zero. The scope includes theoretical exploration and mathematical reasoning related to convergence and expected values.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a method of generating a series of random points y that approach zero, questioning the finiteness of their sum as y converges to zero.
  • Another participant suggests that for the series to converge, y should equal x, indicating a potential misunderstanding in the original setup of the problem.
  • A third participant introduces a notation for random numbers and discusses the expected value of the sum S, asserting that the chance of the series not converging is zero, while providing a probabilistic argument regarding the likelihood of exceeding certain values.
  • A later reply expresses gratitude for the information shared, indicating ongoing contemplation of the discussed concepts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the conditions necessary for convergence and the interpretation of the series. There is no consensus on whether the sum is finite or the conditions under which it converges.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the behavior of random variables and convergence that are not fully explored or defined, leaving some mathematical steps unresolved.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in probability theory, random processes, and convergence in mathematical series may find this discussion relevant.

Loren Booda
Messages
3,115
Reaction score
4
1. Imagine a positive point x not equal to zero.

2. Consider a randomly chosen point y with distance to zero less than x.

3. Let y=x. Repeat #2.

4. Is the sum of the y-values finite as y approaches zero?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Loren Booda said:
1. Imagine a positive point x not equal to zero.

2. Consider a randomly chosen point y with distance to zero less than x.

3. Let y=x. Repeat #2.

4. Is the sum of the y-values finite as y approaches zero?

For step three, it's supposed to be the other way around, right? x is supposed to equal y? Otherwise there's no reason for y to approach zero (or any other number).

I don't know if it always converges, but on average it converges to x (by "average" I mean that for any given random y value, the average of all choices is x/2, so y, on average, equals x/2).
 
Hi, I understand this as follows: denote by ran(x) a random number between 0 and x. Let x1=ran(1), and let xi=ran(xi-1) for x>1.

Let S be the sum Ʃxi.

As noted above, the expected value of S is 1 (does require a very minor argument). The chance of the series not converging is 0. For example the chance of S>N must be less than 1/N, for the average sum to be 1, so the chance of divergence is less than 1/N for any positive N. (A small simulation shows that the chance of the sum exceeding 7 is about 1 in 10 million)
 
Last edited:
Thanks kindly both of you for your information, which I am attempting to cogitate.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 24 ·
Replies
24
Views
4K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
Replies
23
Views
2K