Fire threatens Mount Wilson Observatory & LA TV/Radio Stations

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the Station Fire threatening Mount Wilson Observatory and the associated broadcast transmitters for Los Angeles area TV and radio stations. Participants explore the implications of the fire, the safety of the observatory, and the broader context of living in fire-prone areas.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express concern about the fire's proximity to Mount Wilson and the potential loss of TV signals for antenna users.
  • Others mention that firefighters are hopeful about saving the observatory and transmitters, although no guarantees are made.
  • There are claims that the fire is unlikely to reach the observatory, with some suggesting that previous fires in the area were intentionally started by firefighters.
  • Several participants reflect on the dangers faced by firefighters, noting recent fatalities and expressing respect for their work.
  • Questions arise about the rationale for living in areas prone to wildfires, with some participants questioning the desirability of such locations despite the risks.
  • Discussion includes suggestions about tree management near the observatory, with some advocating for tree removal to reduce fire risk, while others note that the area hasn't seen major fires in decades, leading to fuel accumulation.
  • There are references to the effectiveness of firefighting resources, with some participants discussing the potential benefits of larger firefighting aircraft and questioning current strategies for wildfire management.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of opinions regarding the fire's threat level to the observatory and the rationale for living in fire-prone areas. There is no clear consensus on the best approach to managing wildfire risks or the effectiveness of current firefighting strategies.

Contextual Notes

Some statements reflect uncertainty about the fire's trajectory and the effectiveness of firefighting efforts. There are also varying perspectives on the historical context of fire occurrences in the area and the implications for local residents.

jtbell
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The huge Station Fire near Los Angeles is on or approaching Mount Wilson:

http://www.mtwilson.edu/fire.php

The mountain is also the site of the main broadcast transmitters for all (or almost all) Los Angeles area TV and radio stations. Local stations have been warning that many people who get their TV with an antenna may lose their signal. Some are apparently using subchannels on low-power transmitters that are not on Mt. Wilson as backups.
 
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I was going to start a thread on this as well.

Reports this morning indicate that firefighters are hopeful that the observatory and transmitters can be saved, but no promises.
 
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The people from the observatory say that the fire is probably not going to get to them. Fires that are close to the observatory were started by firefighters... You can read it all on that link in the OP. In fact I just went back there and they say the observatory has been evacuated but the fires in the area of the observatory have diminished.
 
Two firefighters were killed yesterday at that fire when their vehicle rolled down a mountainside:

http://cbs5.com/local/Fire.Watch.Angeles.2.1152950.html

Damn. That is one dangerous fire. RIP, firefighters.
 
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berkeman said:
Two firefighters were killed yesterday at that fire when their vehicle rolled down a mountainside:

http://cbs5.com/local/Fire.Watch.Angeles.2.1152950.html

Damn. That is one dangerous fire. RIP, firefighters.

That's so sad and unfortunate. You must have the most respect for those people who go into situations like these while everyone else is leaving.

One thing I don't understand is if there are fires in these areas pretty much every year why do people wish to live there?
 
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This is a seriously bad fire.

3 critically burned in massive LA-area forest fire
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_wildfires

LOS ANGELES (AP) — A massive fire in the Angeles National Forest nearly doubled in size overnight, threatening 12,000 homes Monday in a 20-mile-long swath of flame and smoke and surging toward a mountaintop broadcasting complex and historic observatory.

The fire was the largest of at least eight burning up and down California after days of triple-digit temperatures and low humidity. The Los Angeles-area blaze had burned at least 21 homes and was moving north, south and east through the rugged foothills northeast of the city.

. . . .
It's a nice place to live - well outside of the city - without the fires.
 
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Astronuc said:
It's a nice place to live - well outside of the city - without the fires.

Is it worth it though? It's something I've always thought of even as a kid. Like why do people live in areas where extreme types of weather come into play and could put you and your belongs in danger. Living near like volcanoes I could see because we can normally determine if they are dormant or still active.
 
Why are there trees near the observatory in the first place? :confused:
 
Count Iblis said:
Why are there trees near the observatory in the first place? :confused:

LOL. (it's on a hilltop)
 
  • #10
If it's in an area where fires occur from time to time, why not cut away all the trees in the neighborhood?
 
  • #11
It's a lot of trees, unfortunately:

http://www.mwoa.org/

.
 
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  • #12
Sorry! said:
One thing I don't understand is if there are fires in these areas pretty much every year why do people wish to live there?

I'm not surprised when people live in places prone to disaster, but the LA area seems unique in that people pay a LOT of money to live in those areas AND to keep all those trees in their backyard! In other places, people end up living in flood plains and such usually because it's really cheap and all they can afford. CA is weird, that's the only explanation I have.
 
  • #13
Count Iblis said:
If it's in an area where fires occur from time to time, why not cut away all the trees in the neighborhood?

Actually, there haven't been any major fires in this particular area for forty years (at least according to someone on the news tonight). That's part of the reason this fire is so bad. There's a lot of fuel lying around in the form of dead wood and other plant matter that's been accumulating for all those years.
 
  • #14
Moonbear said:
I'm not surprised when people live in places prone to disaster, but the LA area seems unique in that people pay a LOT of money to live in those areas

Don't forget all those condo towers on the beach in Florida, waiting for a hurricane to come in. :-p

Those folks have been lucky because a Really Big One hasn't hit them yet. Hurricane Andrew hit the area south of Miami the hardest, and that area is mostly working- and middle-class. The expensive stuff mostly runs from Miami Beach northward.
 
  • #15
Nah, the rich can afford to use the CIA's weather control satellites.
 
  • #16
Hurkyl said:
Nah, the rich can afford to use the CIA's weather control satellites.

Oh, now I understand! Thanks for explaining! :smile:
 
  • #17
I got a message from a friend that still works there.
The mountain was evacuated in case the road is blocked (and for general liability reasons) - they didn't think the observatory is threatened
 
  • #18
It looks now the question is not "whether" but "when" the fire will reach the observatory and the TV/radio towers. The observatory was going to set up an alternate location for its fire update page (linked in the first post) in case the power goes out, but it doesn't seem to be active yet:

http://joy.chara.gsu.edu/CHARA/fire.php
 
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  • #19
MCMINNVILLE, Ore. -- The world’s biggest fire fighter on Tuesday joined those battling California’s blazes...

http://www.kgw.com/business/stories/L_IMAGE.1223cc986ef.93.88.fa.d0.13b9450f9.jpg
http://www.kgw.com/business/stories/kgw_090109_news_evergreen_aviation_firefighting.13b63d366.html

Also a bit of Hollywood trivia: The home used for the filming of the movie, ET, was almost lost, but was one of the lucky ones.
 
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  • #20
Here is the company's promotional video. Very impressive!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvBRWTumoZI
 
  • #21
That's impressive!

Makes me want to buy one.
 
  • #22
jtbell said:
It looks now the question is not "whether" but "when" the fire will reach the observatory and the TV/radio towers. The observatory was going to set up an alternate location for its fire update page (linked in the first post) in case the power goes out, but it doesn't seem to be active yet:

http://joy.chara.gsu.edu/CHARA/fire.php

Looks like they've made great progress in the last couple of days. The latest updates are encouraging for protecting the observatory and comm center:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-10344588-94.html

Way to go, firefighters! o:)
 
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  • #23
I'm so glad. I'm really tired of breathing this thick, smoky, hot, humid, hazy air. pleh
 
  • #24
berkeman said:
Way to go, firefighters! o:)

I'll second that!

These people must have some of the hardest and most dangerous jobs going. You really have to admire them. I wouldn't want to do it for almost any price.
 
  • #25
Astronuc said:
That's impressive!

Makes me want to buy one.

I have always wondered by we can't do better handling wildfires. What about having five or ten of these that hit all at once? Wouldn't that be more cost effective than what we do now? We have fires like this almost every year in one place of another.
 
  • #26
Those bigger planes are pretty new, but yeah, I'm sure that's what they are trying to move towards. I know that every wildland fire Incident Commander would love to have a bunch of them onhand!
 
  • #27
berkeman said:
Those bigger planes are pretty new, but yeah, I'm sure that's what they are trying to move towards. I know that every wildland fire Incident Commander would love to have a bunch of them onhand!

Where is some of that stimulus money? Just a bit should do it! :biggrin:
 
  • #28
How many do we need to have the ability to effectively extinguish [contain] 95% of all fires on a first strike? Keep in mind that they can respond anywhere in the US within two hours.
 
  • #29
Los Angeles Fire Was Arson, Officials Say
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/04/us/04fires.html
A wildfire in the foothills north of Los Angeles that has claimed the lives of two firefighters, ravaged more than 250 square miles and destroyed more than 60 homes was caused by arson, the federal Forest Service said.

The Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department has begun a homicide inquiry looking for the person or people responsible for the wildfire, which continues to burn.

The blaze, known as the Station Fire, has burned for over a week in the Angeles National Forest outside Los Angeles. After a forensic investigation, officials with the U.S. Forest Service determined on Thursday that the fire was started intentionally, and they labeled the firefighters’ deaths homicides, the Associated Press reported.
 

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