First autonomous drone attack on humans (alleged by the UN)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications and classifications of the first alleged autonomous drone attack on humans, specifically referencing an incident during the 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh conflict involving an STM Kargu drone. Participants explore the definitions of autonomy in weaponry, the historical context of autonomous weapons, and the ethical considerations surrounding their use.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express discomfort with the idea of an autonomous drone attack, highlighting the chilling implications of such technology.
  • There is curiosity about the criteria used by the UN to classify this incident as the first autonomous drone attack, questioning why other autonomous weapons, like land and sea mines, are not included in this classification.
  • Participants note that while the distinction may seem significant, the impact on victims remains the same, and there is a broader debate about the ethics of autonomous weapons.
  • Some argue that automation in warfare could lead to greater efficiency and potentially less collateral damage, while acknowledging the risks of such technology falling into the wrong hands.
  • Concerns are raised about the portrayal of autonomous weapons in popular culture, with some participants arguing that comparisons to fictional AI systems like Skynet are misleading.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the definitions and implications of autonomous weapons. Multiple competing views remain regarding the classification of the drone attack and the ethical considerations surrounding autonomous warfare.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the definitions of autonomy in weaponry and the historical context of previous autonomous systems. There are unresolved questions about the implications of automation in warfare and the potential for misuse of technology.

sbrothy
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It may be old news but it still kinda sends a chill down my spine.During the "recent" 2020 war in Nargorno-Karabakh appearently the UN claims that an STM Kargu autonomous kamikaze drone loaded with explosives detected and attacked Haftar's forces in Libya with its artificial intelligence without command. It is considered the first drone attack in history carried out by a loitering munition on it's "own" initiative.Hello Skynet! :)

EDIT: I'm a little behind because this conflict didnt receive much coverage where I live.
EDIT2: And funnily enough the war was appearently fought over Covid-19 restrictions!
 
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sbrothy said:
It is considered the first drone attack in history carried out by a loitering munition on it's "own" initiative.
I'd be curious to try to dissect how they split the hair to declare this the first, vs the many autonomous drones/weapons we've had and used for decades.

I suppose land and sea mines don't qualify for some reason? Autonomous anti-radiation missiles?
 
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russ_watters said:
I'd be curious to try to dissect how they split the hair to declare this the first, vs the many autonomous drones/weapons we've had and used for decades.

I suppose land and sea mines don't qualify for some reason? Autonomous anti-radiation missiles?
Yeah. I'm also pretty sure that the people who were killed don't really care about the distinction., autonomous weapons has been around since the eighties. Still, aot of debate is appereantly going on these days about whether to ban them. Fat chance.
 
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sbrothy said:
It may be old news but it still kinda sends a chill down my spine.During the "recent" 2020 war in Nargorno-Karabakh appearently the UN claims that an STM Kargu autonomous kamikaze drone loaded with explosives detected and attacked Haftar's forces in Libya with its artificial intelligence without command. It is considered the first drone attack in history carried out by a loitering munition on it's "own" initiative.
s!
The locations are mixed up - what does Nargorno-Karabakh (which is a disputed region in the Caucuses) have to do with Libya?

A landmine is a 'loitering' munition - and unlike a drone cannot easily be turned off - so maybe this is a lesser evil? I don't really see the distinction between launching a 'dumb' missile and a drone that will seek and attack some random target.
 
BWV said:
A landmine is a 'loitering' munition - and unlike a drone cannot easily be turned off - so maybe this is a lesser evil?
I think so. The purpose of most automation and/or "smart" technology I can think of is efficiency (and this can be expanded backwards in time/technology somewhat). More effectively hitting your target means less munitions used and less collateral damage. It has enabled changes in tactics and laws of war that have unquestionably led to smaller, shorter, safer and more decisive wars. A cynic could say safety is an unintended biproduct, but it's very real regardless.

There is always a risk (certainty?) that new tech will be used by our enemies, terrorists or even ordinary criminals, and this tech is already dropping into that domain:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Caracas_drone_attack

But I don't get allusions to Skynet/War Games/Strangelove. This isn't the same system as that. Those are AI strategic control systems, not individual weapons. They are fundamentally different in purpose/scope.
 
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