Fock spaces and inequivalent ccr representations

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the concept of Fock spaces and the notion of unitarily inequivalent representations in quantum mechanics and quantum field theory. Participants explore the implications of these representations, particularly in relation to the mathematical and physical interpretations of Hilbert spaces and their bases.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes Fock spaces using lists of integers to represent particles, noting that these lists are not countable and that a Fock space selects a countable subset of such lists.
  • Another participant explains that two representations in different subsets are unitarily inequivalent, meaning that a vector from one representation cannot be expressed as a superposition of vectors from another representation.
  • Some participants suggest that physicists and mathematicians may be discussing the same concepts but interpret them differently, particularly regarding the nature of Hilbert spaces and representations.
  • One participant challenges the idea that physicists see only one Hilbert space, arguing that unitarily inequivalent representations should be considered to lie in different Hilbert spaces.
  • There is a reference to a specific book, "Liquid Glass Transition" by Toyosuki Kitamura, which discusses these concepts in chapter 3.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether physicists and mathematicians are aligned in their understanding of unitarily inequivalent representations and the nature of Hilbert spaces. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the interpretation of these concepts.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions about the definitions of Hilbert spaces and the implications of unitarily inequivalent representations, particularly in the context of quantum mechanics versus quantum field theory.

Heidi
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TL;DR
Do physicist and mathematicians agree with the définition of inequivalent ccr representations?
Fock spaces use lists of integers (0 and 1 in the fermionic case) to describe set of particles.
a list 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 0 ... for 1 fermion in the second third and fifth state may be associated to the real number 0.0110100000...
so this set of list is not countable. a Fock space select a countable subset of such lists
the simpler is found if we choose the lists with a finite number or 1. it contains 0 0 0 0 0 0 ...
we can do the same thing in the bosonic case.
i read this in a book:
Two representations in different subsets are unitarily inequivalent to each other.
If two different subsets can be used as base of representations for the operators;
{a i , a i † } and {α i , α i † } in the set {|n 1 , n 2 , . . . , n i , . . . }, these two representations are
unitarily inequivalent to each other, which means that a vector of one representation
for the operators {a i , a i † } is not expressed by a superposition of base vectors of
another representation for the operators {α i , α i † }. In quantum mechanics, we can
express a vector of one representation by a superposition of base vectors of another
representation, because all possible representations are unitary equivalent.This
situation disappears in the case of quantum field theory.

this the definition of unitarily inequivalence for a physicist.
a mathematician would have spoken of commutativity and intertwiners.
Are they talking about the same thing?
 
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It seems that physicists and mathematicians are talking about the same thing. But when a mathematician sees a bijective intertertwiner A between H1 and H2 with their own represention of a group or an algebra, the physicist sees only one hilbert space H (with its scalar product), A becomes the identity and there are two representations on H.
if all can be well computed they say that the representations are unitarily equivalent. But if the existence of the two representations leads to contradictions or ill defined things they say that there are unitatily inequivalent.
 
Heidi said:
i read this in a book

Which book?

Heidi said:
the physicist sees only one hilbert space H (with its scalar product)

I'm not sure this is true; I think physicists consider unitarily inequivalent representations to lie in different Hilbert spaces. In the quote you give from a book, it says the basis vectors of one representation cannot be expressed as superpositions of the basis vectors of another representation, if the two representations are unitarily inequivalent. But if both sets of basis vectors belong to the same Hilbert space, each set must be expressible as superpositions of the other set, since it's a vector space axiom that any vector in the space can be expressed as a linear combination of a set of basis vectors.
 
PeterDonis said:
Which book?

the book is "liquid glass transition" written by Toyosuki Kitamura (chapter 3).
 

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