Fourier series: relation of coefficients

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between the coefficients of Fourier series expressed in terms of sines and cosines (a_n, b_n) and those expressed solely in terms of sines (A_n, φ_n). Participants explore various mathematical expressions and identities to derive these relationships and clarify potential discrepancies in their approaches.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses a desire to relate coefficients a_n and b_n to amplitudes A_n and phases φ_n using trigonometric identities.
  • Another participant confirms the goal of relating the two styles of Fourier transforms and seeks clarification on the approach.
  • Further calculations are presented, including expressions for A_n and φ_n derived from the relationships between a_n, b_n, A_n, and φ_n.
  • One participant asserts that A_n can be expressed as the square root of the sum of squares of a_n and b_n, leading to the conclusion that A_n^2 = a_n^2 + b_n^2.
  • There is a mention of a discrepancy with a source (German Wikipedia) regarding the expression for φ_n, which raises questions about the correctness of the derived formulas.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the relationships being explored, but there is disagreement regarding the correctness of certain expressions for φ_n, particularly in relation to external sources. The discussion remains unresolved on this point.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the validity of their derived expressions for φ_n, particularly in light of conflicting information from external sources. The discussion includes various mathematical steps that may depend on specific assumptions or definitions.

divB
Messages
85
Reaction score
0
Hi,

The Fourier series can (among others) expressed in terms of sines and cosines with coefficients [itex]a_n[/itex] and [itex]b_n[/itex] and solely by sines using amplitudes [itex]A_n[/itex] and phase [itex]\phi_n[/itex].

I want to express the latter using [itex]a_n[/itex] and [itex]b_n[/itex]. Using

[tex] a_n = A_n \sin(\phi_n) \\<br /> b_n = A_n \cos(\phi_n)[/tex]

I quickly found [itex]A_n[/itex] by expressing the arccos and arcsin. For [itex]\phi_n[/itex] I would get

[tex]\phi_n = \arccos \frac{a_n}{\sqrt{a_n^2 + b_n^2}}[/tex]

However, according to the German Wikipedia (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourier-Reihe) this seems not so trivial. One option there is (for n \neq 0):

[tex]\phi_n = 2 \arctan \frac{b_n}{A_n + a_n}[/tex]

or using arctan and signum function. What I am missing or is my approach also correct?

Thanks,
divB
 
Physics news on Phys.org
You are starting with the two styles of the Fourier transforms:
$$\sum_n a_n\cos nx + b_n\sin nx = \sum_m A_m\sin(mx+\phi_m)$$
... and you want to relate ##\{a_n,b_n\}## to ##\{A_m,\phi_m\}## ... is that correct?
 
yes, exactly. And I relate them with [itex]\sin(a+b) = \sin(a)\cos(b) + \cos(a)\sin(b)[/itex] to get:

[tex] A_0 = a_0/2\\<br /> a_0 = 2A_0[/tex]

[tex] a_n = A_n \sin\phi_n \\<br /> b_n = A_n \cos\phi_n[/tex]

For represeting [itex]A_n[/itex] I get using both equations above:

[tex] A_n = a_n/\sin\phi_n \\<br /> cos\phi_n = b_n/A_n \\<br /> \phi_n = \arccos b_n/A_n = \arcsin \sqrt{1-b_n^2/A_n^2} \\<br /> A_n = \frac{a_n}{\sqrt{1-\frac{b_n^2}{A_n^2}}} \\<br /> \dots \\<br /> A_n = \sqrt{a_n^2 + b_n^2}[/tex]

I think this is correct, right?
In the same spirit, I can derive

[tex] \phi_n = \arccos\frac{b_n}{A_n} = \arccos\frac{b_n}{\sqrt{a_n^2 + b_n^2}}[/tex]

... but according to the German Wikipedia this is wrong. Why?
 
That works ...

To put it another way - you can expand each term in the sin-only expansion in terms of the sin-cos expansion ... i.e.

$$A_n\sin(nx+\phi_n)=\sum_m a_m\cos(mx)+b_m\sin(mx)$$

Then you apply the identity.
Since you are expanding an arbitrary sine in terms of sines and cosines, the sum should only have one term in it... (for each value of n on the RHS.)

Leads you to:

##A_n^2=a_n^2+b_n^2##

##\phi_n=\arctan(a_n/b_n)##

... sure. Nicely done.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K