##\frac {t_{1/2}}{t_{3/4}}## for an nth order reaction

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between the half-life (t1/2) and the time to reach three-quarters completion (t3/4) for an nth order reaction, specifically when n is not equal to 1. Participants explore how these times depend on initial concentration and the order of the reaction.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a mathematical derivation showing that when calculating t1/2 and t3/4, the initial concentration (C0) cancels out, suggesting that the ratio depends only on n.
  • Another participant questions the definition of t3/4, asking whether it refers to the time when three-quarters of the reactant is used up or remaining.
  • A different participant expresses uncertainty about the correct interpretation of t3/4, indicating a lack of clarity on whether it refers to the amount used or left.
  • One participant asserts that the relationship between t1/2 and t3/4 may only hold for first-order reactions, suggesting that for other orders, the relationship is more complex.
  • Another participant discusses the implications of initial concentration on the concept of half-life, noting that while half-life equations do not contain concentration terms, an initial concentration is necessary for meaningful interpretation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definition and implications of t3/4 and whether the ratio of t1/2 to t3/4 depends solely on n or also on initial concentration. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing interpretations.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the clarity of definitions regarding t3/4 and its relationship to t1/2. The discussion also highlights the complexity of half-life relationships across different orders of reactions, which may not be straightforward.

mooncrater
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Homework Statement


The question:
For an nth order reaction ##\frac {t_{1/2}}{t_{3/4}}## depends on (n isn't equal to 1) :
(A) initial concentration only
(B) 'n' only
(C) initial concentration and 'n' both
(D) sometimes 'n' and sometimes initial concentration.

Homework Equations


##\frac{dc}{dt}=-kc^n##

The Attempt at a Solution


Integrating this equation:
(from ##C_0## to ##C## and ##0## to ##t##)
##\frac {1}{n-1}## ##[\frac {1}{C^{n-1}}-\frac {1}{(C_{0})^{n-1}}]=kt##
So when ##t=t_{1/2}## then ##C=C_0/2## and when ##t=t_{3/4}## then ##C=C_0/4##
And when we put this in the equation and divide then there is no ##C_0## in that. So why is (C) correct? (B) should be correct. Where am I wrong?
 
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mooncrater said:
when ##t=t_{3/4}## then ##C=C_0/4##

I am not convinced that is correct.

What is t_{\frac 3 4}?
 
Borek said:
I am not convinced that is correct.

What is t_{\frac 3 4}?
The time in which 3/4th of the reactant is used up. Is it wrong?
 
Used, or left? I am honestly not sure. Perhaps that's because I am still sleepy.
 
So far as I can see you are not wrong and there is a cancellation such that only n appears in the ratio.

Where are you getting these problems from? It would be useful if your personal info included where you are.
 
Borek said:
I am not convinced that is correct.

What is t_{\frac 3 4}?
I've seen reports on decay times referred to as t3/4 that refer to the time for completion of two half-lives. That is, t1/2(1) + t1/2(2) = t3/4, time required to consume 3/4 of the initial amount of reagent. However, for C = Co/4 which is the sum of two half-lives, but holds only for 1st order reactions. (for example, radioactive decay is 1st order) For n ≠ 1 each subsequent t1/2 calculated compresses or expands depending on the order of reaction being studied. Here are some trends of half-lives relative to order of reaction. For 'dependence on initial concentration', and in the light of the fact that none of the half-life equations contain a concentration term, one would have to assume (for the sake of answering the above question) that to consider a time as t1/2, one has to assume (arbitrarily) that an initial concentration value must exist so as to give meaning to the term half-life, which, I must admit, is a stretch, but is the only logical inference I could relate to the question given.

For a zero-order reaction:
zero_order_half-life.jpg


For a 1st order reaction
first_order_half-life.jpg


For a 2nd order reaction:
Screen_shot_2011-03-14_at_2.02.16_PM.png
 
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