Frame Dragging Explained: Dimensions, Schwarzschild Radius, Metrics & Angles

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of frame dragging, particularly in the context of black holes and the Schwarzschild radius. Participants explore the relationship between frame dragging and various metrics, including the Kerr-Newman metric, and its implications in astrophysics. The conversation touches on theoretical aspects, mathematical formulations, and the effects of frame dragging in different astrophysical environments.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks a brief explanation of frame dragging, including its dimensions and relation to the Schwarzschild radius, and questions the use of metrics to calculate the dragging of matter and space over time.
  • Another participant expresses doubt about the feasibility of providing a simple explanation without formal education in general relativity (GR).
  • A later reply elaborates on the relationship between the Schwarzschild boundary and the ergosphere of a spinning black hole, noting that the coordinate radius for the event horizon changes with spin.
  • Mathematical expressions for the frame dragging rate are provided, including formulas for both the observed rate from infinity and the local frame dragging rate adjusted for redshift.
  • Frame dragging effects are also noted in rotating spiral galaxies and dynamic galaxy clusters, with observations about the geometry of these systems and the behavior of clocks in different gravitational fields.
  • Participants discuss the cumulative effects of frame dragging over time in galaxy formation and the contribution of gravitational energy to space-time curvature.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the ease of explaining frame dragging, with some believing it requires formal education in GR while others seek simpler explanations. Multiple competing views on the implications and calculations related to frame dragging remain present.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the potential complexity of the mathematical formulations discussed, the dependence on specific definitions of terms like "frame" and "dimensions," and the unresolved nature of how frame dragging is quantitatively assessed in various contexts.

eggman100
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Can someone please explain to me (it can only be brief, I'll try to do the dirty work myself ^.^):

Frame dragging in terms of:

What is a frame, What are it's dimensions (2d/3d(x,y,z))

What does this have in relation to the Schwarzschild radius in terms of astrophysics;

With that answer, is it possible to use the metrics to work out the dragging of matter and space(/time) per second according to the mass and gravitational force of the black hole?

E.g. using the Kerr-Newman metric:

Can I use the metric to work out how much the mass would stretch from a distance of 5km, and how much more it would be stretched per 1km closer the object is to the center?

In terms of the metric, what does the angles mean? In the metric it shows E.g: dθ^2, what does this mean in terms of frame dragging?

Thank you for reading, I really need this to be answered by anyone who can! Please! :)

Thank you so much! :)
 
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Unfortunately I don't think it is easy enough to do for someone who hasn't been formally educated in GR and the prerequisite courses.
 
Drakkith said:
Unfortunately I don't think it is easy enough to do for someone who hasn't been formally educated in GR and the prerequisite courses.

No I mean't, I just wanted a basic explanation, nothing hard, I just wanted to know short answers to my questions, no hardcore explanation =)
 
eggman100 said:
What does this have in relation to the Schwarzschild radius in terms of astrophysics;

With that answer, is it possible to use the metrics to work out the dragging of matter and space(/time) per second according to the mass and gravitational force of the black hole?

In the equatorial plane, the Schwarzschild boundary (2M) is in the same place as the outer boundary of the ergosphere for a spinning black hole. This remains unchanged regardless of how much spin the black hole has, this doesn't apply at the poles. the coordinate radius for the event horizon within the ergosphere reduces the greater the spin.

ergosphere (re)-

[tex]r_{e} = M + \sqrt{M^2 - a^2 \cos^2 \theta}[/tex]

where [itex]M=Gm/c^2,\ a=J/mc[/itex] and [itex]\theta[/itex] is the plane angle (i.e. equatorial plane = 90 degrees)

the event horizon (r+) is-

[tex]r_{+} = M + \sqrt{M^2 - a^2}[/tex]Regarding the second question, the frame dragging rate as observed from infinity is-

[tex]\omega=\frac{2Mrac}{\Sigma^2}[/tex]
where [itex]\omega[/itex] is the frame dragging rate in rads/s, [itex]\Sigma^2=(r^2+a^2)^2-a^2\Delta \sin^2\theta[/itex] and [itex]\Delta= r^{2}+a^{2}-2Mr[/itex]

For the local frame dragging rate, you multiply [itex]\omega[/itex] by the redshift [itex](\alpha)[/itex] where-

[tex]\alpha=\frac{\rho}{\Sigma}\sqrt{\Delta}[/tex]

where [itex]\rho=\sqrt{r^2+a^2 \cos^2\theta}[/itex]Source-
http://www.lsw.uni-heidelberg.de/users/mcamenzi/CObjects_06.pdf
 
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In addition to the environment near black holes frame-dragging is also evident in rotating spiral galaxies and in dynamic galaxy clusters. Of course, the effects are less because the masses are less, but the effect is cumulative over the eons of galaxy/cluster formation. Here are some simplified statements about their evolution:

• The geometry of a rotating rigid disc, or that of a virialized rotating spiral galaxy, is not Euclidean because of the Lorentzian contraction.

• Identical clocks in a spiral galaxy run at different rates, depending on their location along the radius. A clock at the circumference runs more slowly than one at the center.

• Emitters that are accelerated or in a gravitational field have their wavelengths shifted according to the strength of that field. Emitters in a rotating system are subject to two accelerating fields: Centripetal and Coriolis.

• The inertial frame of the rotating galaxy is twisted by Lense-Thirring frame-dragging, an effect predicted by relativity, has been measured by the Gravity Probe B satellite.

• The total gravitating action created by the galaxy or cluster depends on its total energy, that is, the total ponderable energy plus the gravitational energy.

• The energy of the gravitational field itself contributes to the space-time curvature.
 

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