Freewheel/Ratchet Clutch - Combining multiple torque inputs

[raniero]

Hi, I am required to design a tandem bike where multiple torque inputs will be present at different speeds since persons on the bike will not be cycling at the same rotational velocity. From my understanding of freewheel clutches to transmit all the torques produced by the cyclists using freewheel clutches these need to cycle at the same exact velocity, which is impractical. Is this correct ?

If so, what mechanical components should I use to combine the multiple torques produced ?

 

[berkeman]

Hi, I am required to design a tandem bike where multiple torque inputs will be present at different speeds since persons on the bike will not be cycling at the same rotational velocity. From my understanding of freewheel clutches to transmit all the torques produced by the cyclists using freewheel clutches these need to cycle at the same exact velocity, which is impractical. Is this correct ?

If so, what mechanical components should I use to combine the multiple torques produced ?

To combine power sources that are turning at different rates, you need to use transmissions/gears. If the rotation rates are continuously variable, you will need to use a continuously-variable transmission, which is a bit much for a bicycle. Instead, consider combining them with discrete gear sets. Basically something like a standard bicycle uses, but with to sets of pedals and gears.

 

[raniero]

consider combining them with discrete gear sets.

Combining multiple sources with discrete gear sets won't allow the passengers to stop pedaling while other passengers are still cycling.

 

[berkeman]

Combining multiple sources with discrete gear sets won't allow the passengers to stop pedaling while other passengers are still cycling.

Of course it will. Just use the usual freewheeling style hub...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...Freewheelandhub.jpg/300px-Freewheelandhub.jpg

 

[raniero]

Of course it will. Just use the usual freewheeling style hub...

So, if I use one like the picture below, and say I apply 3 different torques to 3 different gears on this freewheel, the output torque of the shaft should be the addition of these 3 torques right?

I am still unsure how this will allow one of the 'engaged'/used gears to stop rotating while the other are still rotating.

 

[berkeman]

No, you need one gearset and freewheel per pair of pedals.

 

[raniero]

No, you need one gearset and freewheel per pair of pedals.

That's what I was thinking originally, but I was concerned that if the passengers do not cycle at the same rotational velocity then the slower ones would not be doing any work.

 

[OldYat47]

I'm assuming you are using a standard tandem setup for the drive chain. That is, rider #1 has a single chain ring, rider #2 has two chain rings ("input" from rider #1 and "output"). You could observe the rider's pedaling rates and alter the size of the chain rings. For example, if rider #1 pedals 10% faster than rider #2 you could size rider #2's chain rings 10% larger than rider #1's chain ring. Same drive chain passing speed, different rotation rates. That's the simplest solution, but it does mean that all riders have to pedal at the same time (if not the same rate), and changing riders will change the gearing relation. To achieve independence between the riders you will need a freewheel clutch in the chain ring hubs.

 

[raniero]

To achieve independence between the riders you will need a freewheel clutch in the chain ring hubs.

I was just seeing this animation of a freewheel clutch:

Having the pedals instead of the gear teeth and the rotating shaft as the yellow part, wouldn't it mean that if the shaft is rotating faster than pedals the mentioned pedals wouldn't be doing any work (since the red part would never be able to remain engaged in the inner teeth) ?

On the other hand, if the shaft is already rotating and now the pedals rotate at a higher rotational velocity than the shaft, suddenly they put a torque on the shaft resulting in an acceleration of the shaft. As the shaft accelerates, the other pedal which was originally rotating the shaft first, is now too slow to keep up with the new rotational velocity. From my understanding this means that at any given time only one moment from one pedal is actually transferred to the shaft unless both pedals are rotating with exactly equal rotational velocity (which is highly impractical). Am I missing something ?

 

[OldYat47]

Yes. The axle (or in your description the pedals) have to be rotating as fast as the sprockets to add any torque. Otherwise that rider is just spinning his wheels (sorry, couldn't resist). You may want to search "infinitely variable bottom bracket". There's a bunch of stuff out there that could give you inspiration.

 

[CWatters]

Pity you can't get left and right handed gear sets, put one each side of the bike.

 

[Tom.G]

Are there any small torque converters on the market?

 

[OldYat47]

All torque converters I know of are quite inefficient, except for automotive ones that lock up close to input/output speed matchup.