Understanding Torque Transmission in Engine Clutches

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mechanics of torque transmission in engine clutches, specifically addressing how engine torque is affected by the inertia of rotating components. Participants explore the relationship between engine torque, clutch torque, and the inertial losses associated with accelerating engine parts.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a formula for torque at the clutch, questioning why the torque required to accelerate the inertia of rotating components is subtracted from the total engine torque.
  • Another participant asserts that total torque in equals total torque out, suggesting that the torque from the engine is divided between the clutch and the torque needed for engine parts.
  • A different participant challenges the phrasing of "torque taken by engine parts," arguing that the engine parts themselves produce and transmit torque.
  • One participant clarifies that during acceleration, the engine must provide torque to overcome the inertia of its components, which reduces the torque available for other functions, such as moving the wheels.
  • Another participant discusses the concept of parasitic drag, indicating that energy is consumed by the engine components to produce usable torque, and emphasizes the importance of assembly procedures to minimize these effects.
  • A participant raises a question about the distinction between moment of inertia and the mass of the engine, suggesting that only the moment of inertia affects torque delivered to the wheels.
  • A later reply clarifies that both moment of inertia and linear inertia are relevant, as both contribute to power loss during acceleration, but acknowledges that the linear aspect may be less relevant for a stationary engine.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between engine torque and the torque required to accelerate engine components. Some agree on the concept of inertial losses, while others debate the terminology and implications of torque distribution. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various aspects of torque transmission, including the effects of inertia and the distinction between rotational and linear motion. There are unresolved nuances regarding the definitions and implications of these concepts.

R Power
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Hi guys
I read somewhere that "the actual torque transmitted from the engine to the clutch is the total engine torque subtacted by the amount of torque required to accelerate the inertia of rotating components of engine.i.e:"

T(c) = T(e) - [ I(e) x \alpha(e) ]

where T(c)=Torque at clutch
I(e)= inertia of rotating engine parts
\alpha(e)=angular acceleration of rotating engine parts

Can you explain this?
I mean, I(e) x alpha(e) is the amount of torque produced by engine, then why it is subtracted as inertial loss.
 
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Hi R Power! :wink:

Total torque in = total torque out.

So torque from engine = torque taken by clutch + torque taken by engine parts.

What's worrying you about that? :smile:
 
Engine parts are producing torque or I can say engine is producing torque by moving it's parts like crankshaft, how can you write "torque taken by engine parts", it is these engine parts only which carry all the torque to transmitt it further.
 
What you're saying is true when the parts are accelerating (their rpm is increasing). If it takes 50lb-ft to accelerate the flywheel, then obviously that 50lb-ft is going to have to come from the engine, leaving less to move the wheels. The engine also has inertia, so when revving up it will use up some of its own torque. However, once the parts are up to speed and at constant rpm (such as on a highway at constant speed), then they don't take up that torque anymore, and you have more power to drive the wheels.

The engine is also one of the heaviest parts of the car, and indeed when the car is accelerating, a big chunk of its power goes into accelerating itself...
 
an engine can in fact produce torque. but...in order to produce this torque, the comonents of the engine must move. to move these parts, energy in the form of torque is required. call it parasitic drag, friction or what ever but resistance to movment is present and the rotaating and reciprocating assemblies suck off a finite amount of power (torque) in the process of producing the resultant useable torque measured at the flywheel. it si a mute point in that this is always the case and by using proper assembly proceedures one ca nmaximize the total torque and minimize the parasitic effects.
 
Lsos
Are you not confusing the moment of inertia of the rotating parts of the engine with the mass of the engine which is lumped together with the rest of the vehicle? It is only the MI which takes away some of the torque delivered to the wheels, surely.
 
No, I didn't confuse them. I know they are separate things, that's why I separated them into two paragraphs.

The first paragraph deals with moment of inertia, while the second paragraph deals with just inertia.

They are separate things, but they are, however, very similar concepts. One deals with mass spinning, the other deals with mass moving linearly...but they both deal with accelerating a mass.

The second paragraph was simply meant to show that just as much as an engine wastes power in accelerating itself linearly, it also wastes power in accelerating itself rotationally. I figured this would help make sense of the situation.
 
OK, I see what you mean.
But the linear aspect of engine acceleration has varying relevance to the discussion - particularly if we are discussing a stationary engine.:smile:
 

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