Frequency threshold in the photoelectric effect

[Gerlan Silva]

The existence of a frequency threshold in the photoelectric effect is often regarded as the strongest objection to the wave theory. Because?

 

[PeterDonis]

The existence of a frequency threshold in the photoelectric effect is often regarded as the strongest objection to the wave theory.

Can you give a specific reference that makes this claim?

 

[Gerlan Silva]

Can you give a specific reference that makes this claim?

The effect of the photoelectric effect is not observed below a certain
Frequency threshold is a consequence of a photon energy having to be equal to
or greater than the true work

 

[PeterDonis]

The effect of the photoelectric effect is not observed below a certain
Frequency threshold is a consequence of a photon energy having to be equal to
or greater than the true work

This isn't what I asked for. I asked for a reference--a link to a textbook or a peer-reviewed paper that makes the claim you say is "often" made.

Plus, it seems like you have answered the very question you asked in the OP. What exactly is the issue you are asking about?

 

[Gerlan Silva]

This isn't what I asked for. I asked for a reference--a link to a textbook or a peer-reviewed paper that makes the claim you say is "often" made.

Plus, it seems like you have answered the very question you asked in the OP. What exactly is the issue you are asking about?

This issue that I posted is Eisberg's quantum physics. P 79

 

[PeterDonis]

Eisberg's quantum physics

This?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/047187373X/?tag=pfamazon01-20

 

[Gerlan Silva]

This?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/047187373X/?tag=pfamazon01-20

yes.

 

[vanhees71]

The existence of a frequency threshold in the photoelectric effect is often regarded as the strongest objection to the wave theory. Because?

Why should there be any objection to "the wave theory", whatever you mean by it. If you mean light as an electromagnetic wave, there's certainly nothing to object against it. The photoelectric effect at the level of Einstein's original (and outdated!) paper of 1905 is (as most of macroscopic optics) in the semiclassical approximation, i.e., describing the em. field as classical and the (charged) matter by quantum theory:

https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/sins-physics-didactics/

The description of the photoelectric effect in the above quoted book is outdated and shouldn't be taught in this way anymore in the 21st century (or only in a lecture on the history of science of the early 20th century, before a consistent quantum theory has been formulated)!

 

[ZapperZ]

The existence of a frequency threshold in the photoelectric effect is often regarded as the strongest objection to the wave theory. Because?

It was thought, at that time {emphasis was for the benefit of @vanhees71 before he gets into a conniption}, that energy in an EM wave can "accumulate" over time, and thus, a photoelectron can be emitted once the surface has acquired sufficient energy.

Einstein's photoelectric effect model indicates that it can't. On the other hand, if the frequency is above threshold, even at extremely low intensity (for a wave, this means at very low amplitude of oscillation), one will get electron emission. This too matches what is predicted by the photoelectric effect model.

So yes, at that time, these two were thought to be inconsistent with the EM wave picture.

Zz.

 

[PeterDonis]

Why should there be any objection to "the wave theory", whatever you mean by it.

Please don't get hung up over the OP's phrasing. The reason I asked for a reference is so that we can look at what the reference said, instead of what the OP's paraphrase of the reference said. As far as I can tell, the reference says basically what @ZapperZ said.

 

[PeterDonis]

if the frequency is above threshold, even at extremely low intensity (for a wave, this means at very low amplitude of oscillation), one will get electron emission.

I think it's also important that there is no time delay in the emission: as soon as you turn the light on, even at very low intensity, you get a photoelectric current. The "energy in the EM wave accumulates" model would predict a time delay that gets longer as the intensity gets lower.