Gamma matrices and lorentz algebra

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of the Lorentz algebra relations for the generators of the spinor representation using gamma matrices. Participants explore the mathematical details and potential errors in the computation, focusing on the algebraic properties of the gamma matrices and their implications in the context of Lorentz transformations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a computation involving the commutation relations of the generators and expresses uncertainty about the correctness of their result.
  • Another participant suggests that the metric tensor should be used instead of the delta function in the algebraic expression.
  • A different participant shares their experience with similar computations, emphasizing the complexity and suggesting practical tips for managing the calculations.
  • The original poster acknowledges the suggestion about using the metric and claims to have identified their mistake, providing a detailed proof of the algebraic relations.
  • The original poster also discusses the cancellation of terms in their final expression, indicating a lengthy but ultimately successful derivation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correct use of the metric versus the delta function, indicating a lack of consensus on this aspect. The original poster's final proof appears to resolve their initial uncertainty, but the overall discussion remains open to further scrutiny and alternative interpretations.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the complexity of the algebra involved and the potential for errors in lengthy calculations. There is an emphasis on the importance of careful notation and the use of visual aids to track terms.

RedX
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I'm trying to show that the generators of the spinor representation:

[tex]M^{\mu \nu}=\frac{1}{2}\sigma^{\mu \nu}=\frac{i}{4}[\gamma^\mu,\gamma^\nu][/tex]

obey the Lorentz algebra:

[tex][M^{\mu \nu},M^{\rho \sigma}]=i(\delta^{\mu \rho}M^{\nu \sigma}-\delta^{\nu \rho}M^{\mu \sigma}+\delta^{\nu \sigma}M^{\mu \rho}-\delta^{\mu \sigma}M^{\nu \rho})[/tex]

However, I'm not getting the right answer, so I was hoping someone could point out where I went wrong:

[tex][M^{\mu \nu},M^{\rho \sigma}]=<br /> \frac{-1}{16}[[\gamma^{\mu},\gamma^{\nu}],[\gamma^{\rho},\gamma^{\sigma}]][/tex]

[tex] =\frac{-1}{16}[2\gamma^{\mu}\gamma^{\nu}-2g^{\mu \nu},2\gamma^{\rho}\gamma^{\sigma}-2g^{\rho \sigma}]=\frac{-1}{8}[\gamma^{\mu}\gamma^{\nu},\gamma^{\rho}\gamma^{\sigma}][/tex]

Now using these relations:

[AB,CD]=[AB,C]D+C[AB,D]
[AB,C]=A{B,C}-{A,C}B

[tex] \frac{-1}{8}[\gamma^{\mu}\gamma^{\nu},\gamma^{\rho}\gamma^{\sigma}]<br /> =\frac{-1}{8}(<br /> [\gamma^{\mu}\gamma^{\nu},\gamma^{\rho}]\gamma^{\sigma}+ <br /> \gamma^{\rho}[\gamma^{\mu}\gamma^{\nu},\gamma^{\sigma}]<br /> )=\frac{-1}{8}(\gamma^{\mu} \{\gamma^{\nu},\gamma^{\rho} \}\gamma^{\sigma}<br /> -\{\gamma^{\mu},\gamma^{\rho} \}\gamma^\nu \gamma^\sigma<br /> +<br /> \gamma^{\rho}\gamma^{\mu} \{\gamma^{\nu},\gamma^{\sigma} \}<br /> - \gamma^\rho \{\gamma^{\mu},\gamma^\sigma \} \gamma^\nu<br /> )[/tex]

[tex]=\frac{-1}{4}(g^{\nu \rho}\gamma^{\mu}\gamma^{\sigma}<br /> -g^{\mu \rho}\gamma^{\nu}\gamma^{\sigma}<br /> +g^{\nu \sigma}\gamma^{\rho}\gamma^{\mu}<br /> -g^{\mu \sigma}\gamma^{\rho}\gamma^{\nu}<br /> )[/tex]

This last expression almost looks like the Lorentz algebra, but it is missing the partner in the commutator.
 
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RedX said:
obey the Lorentz algebra:

[tex][M^{\mu \nu},M^{\rho \sigma}]=i(\delta^{\mu \rho}M^{\nu \sigma}-\delta^{\nu \rho}M^{\mu \sigma}+\delta^{\nu \sigma}M^{\mu \rho}-\delta^{\mu \sigma}M^{\nu \rho})[/tex]
You should put eta here, not delta. It's Lorentz metric, anyway.
 
I did this computation a few years ago. There's no advice to give, rather than paying attention to the awfully many terms. Use as many as possible blank A4 papers and colored pencils to underline similar terms. Eventually, you should get it.
 
Thanks everyone. Using different colored pencils: that's a brilliant idea! I never thought about that before, but that would help on long calculations.

As for using the metric instead of the delta: yes I should! Although you can define spinors on Euclidean space mathematically, physically they should be on Minkowski space and I should have a 'g' instead of a delta.

Anyways, I figured out where I went wrong. Here's the complete proof for anyone interested:

Show that:

[tex]M^{\mu \nu}=\frac{1}{2}\sigma^{\mu \nu}=\frac{i}{4}[\gamma^\mu,\gamma^\nu][/tex]

obeys the Lorentz algebra:

[tex][M^{\mu \nu},M^{\rho \sigma}]=i(\delta^{\mu \rho}M^{\nu \sigma}-\delta^{\nu \rho}M^{\mu \sigma}+\delta^{\nu \sigma}M^{\mu \rho}-\delta^{\mu \sigma}M^{\nu \rho})[/tex]

[tex][M^{\mu \nu},M^{\rho \sigma}]=<br /> \frac{-1}{16}[[\gamma^{\mu},\gamma^{\nu}],[\gamma^{\rho},\gamma^{\sigma}]][/tex]

[tex] =\frac{-1}{16}[2\gamma^{\mu}\gamma^{\nu}-2g^{\mu \nu},2\gamma^{\rho}\gamma^{\sigma}-2g^{\rho \sigma}]=\frac{-1}{4}[\gamma^{\mu}\gamma^{\nu},\gamma^{\rho}\gamma^{\sigma}][/tex]

Now using these relations:

[AB,CD]=[AB,C]D+C[AB,D]
[AB,C]=A{B,C}-{A,C}B

[tex] \frac{-1}{4}[\gamma^{\mu}\gamma^{\nu},\gamma^{\rho}\gamma^{\sigma}]<br /> =\frac{-1}{4}(<br /> [\gamma^{\mu}\gamma^{\nu},\gamma^{\rho}]\gamma^{\sigma}+ <br /> \gamma^{\rho}[\gamma^{\mu}\gamma^{\nu},\gamma^{\sigma}]<br /> )=\frac{-1}{4}(\gamma^{\mu} \{\gamma^{\nu},\gamma^{\rho} \}\gamma^{\sigma}<br /> -\{\gamma^{\mu},\gamma^{\rho} \}\gamma^\nu \gamma^\sigma<br /> +<br /> \gamma^{\rho}\gamma^{\mu} \{\gamma^{\nu},\gamma^{\sigma} \}<br /> - \gamma^\rho \{\gamma^{\mu},\gamma^\sigma \} \gamma^\nu<br /> )[/tex]

[tex]=\frac{-1}{2}(g^{\nu \rho}\gamma^{\mu}\gamma^{\sigma}<br /> -g^{\mu \rho}\gamma^{\nu}\gamma^{\sigma}<br /> +g^{\nu \sigma}\gamma^{\rho}\gamma^{\mu}<br /> -g^{\mu \sigma}\gamma^{\rho}\gamma^{\nu}<br /> )[/tex]

[tex] =\frac{-1}{4}(g^{\nu \rho}\gamma^{\mu}\gamma^{\sigma}+g^{\nu \rho}\gamma^{\mu}\gamma^{\sigma} \\<br /> -g^{\mu \rho}\gamma^{\nu}\gamma^{\sigma}-g^{\mu \rho}\gamma^{\nu}\gamma^{\sigma} \\<br /> +g^{\nu \sigma}\gamma^{\rho}\gamma^{\mu}+g^{\nu \sigma}\gamma^{\rho}\gamma^{\mu}\\<br /> -g^{\mu \sigma}\gamma^{\rho}\gamma^{\nu}-g^{\mu \sigma}\gamma^{\rho}\gamma^{\nu}<br /> )[/tex]
But for example the first two terms:

[tex]g^{\nu \rho}\gamma^{\mu}\gamma^{\sigma}+g^{\nu \rho}\gamma^{\mu}\gamma^{\sigma}=g^{\nu \rho}[\gamma^\mu,\gamma^\sigma]+2g^{\nu \rho}g^{\mu \sigma}[/tex] (this comes from the identity [tex]\gamma^\mu \gamma^\sigma=2g^{\mu \sigma}-\gamma^\sigma \gamma^\mu[/tex]).

All the "gg's" end up cancelling, proving the result. So it's pretty long, but I think it's still short enough that I can put it on my power point presentation I have tomorrow :)
 

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