Generalizing Rigid Motions Group w/ Metric

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the generalization of the Euclidean group of rigid motions, denoted as Euc(n), to other metrics, specifically focusing on whether this generalization can still represent a group of "rigid motions" under different inner products or metrics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants define Euc(n) as the set of transformations that preserve distances in the Euclidean space, questioning if this can be generalized to other metrics.
  • Others propose that the concept of isometries, which require only a metric, can apply to this generalization, suggesting that neither an inner product nor a norm is necessary.
  • One participant elaborates on the distinctions between metrics and norms, explaining how a norm can define a metric and discussing properties such as positive-definiteness and the triangle inequality.
  • There is a mention of the discrete metric as an example of a metric that does not correspond to a norm, raising questions about compatibility with vector space structures.
  • Further discussion includes the relationship between inner products and norms, noting that not all norms arise from inner products, with the p-norm being cited as an example.
  • One participant discusses the implications of linear isometries in finite-dimensional vector spaces, emphasizing their bijective nature and relevance to reversible transformations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the requirements for defining rigid motions under various metrics, with some agreeing on the role of isometries while others challenge the compatibility of certain metrics with vector space structures. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these generalizations.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in the definitions and properties discussed, including the dependence on specific assumptions about metrics and norms, as well as the implications of different types of metrics on vector space structures.

topsquark
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Define:
[math]Euc(n) = \{ T \in End( \mathbb{R}^n )| ~ ||Tx - Ty|| = ||x - y||~\forall x,y \in \mathbb{R}^n \}[/math]

This is defined as the Euclidean group of rigid motions.

Can we generalize this group to be defined with any metric (well actually inner product, I suppose)? Obviously it won't be Euclidean any more. Would that represent a group of "rigid motions" as defined by that metric?

-Dan

Edit: I should mention that in the definition of Euc(n) [math]||x|| = \sqrt{ \sum_i x_i^2 }[/math].
 
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topsquark said:
Define:
[math]Euc(n) = \{ T \in End( \mathbb{R}^n )| ~ ||Tx - Ty|| = ||x - y||~\forall x,y \in \mathbb{R}^n \}[/math]

This is defined as the Euclidean group of rigid motions.

Can we generalize this group to be defined with any metric (well actually inner product, I suppose)? Obviously it won't be Euclidean any more. Would that represent a group of "rigid motions" as defined by that metric?

-Dan

Edit: I should mention that in the definition of Euc(n) [math]||x|| = \sqrt{ \sum_i x_i^2 }[/math].

Yes.
It's called an isometry.
Literally translated: equal metric.
You only need a metric to define it. Neither an inner product, nor a norm are required.
 
I like Serena said:
Yes.
It's called an isometry.
Literally translated: equal metric.
You only need a metric to define it. Neither an inner product, nor a norm are required.
Ah! Yes, I have heard of isometries. (I must actually be starting to understand how some of this stuff crosses course boundaries.) Thanks for the info!

-Dan
 
Here is how I think of it:

A METRIC is a "spatial thing", it tells us "how separated" (we use "how far apart" as measured by the metric) two points are.

A NORM is a "vector thing"-there is this requirement of "homogeneity" (also called absolute scalability)which tells us that the norm is "consistent" with scalar multiplication:

$\|\alpha v\| = |\alpha|\|v\|$

Given a normed vector space, one can define a metric $d$ by:

$d(u,v) = \|u - v\|$.

Now one of the properties of a norm $\|\cdot\|$ is that:

$\|v\| = 0 \iff v = 0$.

This implies $d(u,v) = 0 \iff u = v$.

A norm must also satisfy the TRIANGLE INEQUALITY:

$\|u + v\| \leq \|u\| + \|v\|$

From this we have:

$0 = \|v + -v\| \leq \|v\| + \|-v\| = \|v\| + \|(-1)v\| = \|v\| + |-1|\|v\| = 2\|v\|$

so a norm is positive-definite, and so $d: V \times V \to \Bbb R_0^+$.

The triangle property of a norm tells us:

$d(u,w) = \|u - w\| = \|u - v + v - w\| \leq \|u - v\| + \|v - w\| = d(u,v) + d(v,w)$, so we have a bona-fide metric.

However, not ALL metrics on a vector space are "compatible" with the vector space structure:

We can define, for example, the "discrete metric":

$d(v,v) = 0$, for all $v \in V$.

$d(u,v) = 1$, if $u \neq v$, which is not absolutely scalable, so does not correspond to a norm.

It is possible to give examples of two metrics which induce the same topology on a vector space $V$, but one is a norm, and one is not, but I will not do so here.

Even MORE restrictive, is the case of an inner product space. An inner product $\langle \cdot,\cdot\rangle$ induces a norm by:

$\|v\| = \sqrt{\langle v,v \rangle}$

But not all norms arise in this way, an example is the $p$-norm for $p \neq 2$:

$\displaystyle \|v\|_p = \left(\sum_i^n |v_i|^p\right)^{1/p}$ which is NOT an inner product.

$\Bbb R^n$ is rather special: It's an inner product space with a topology induced by the metric which is induced by the norm induced by its inner product. Moreover, the vector space addition and scalar multiplication are continuous maps.

Note that $\text{End}(\Bbb R^n)$ has a natural ring structure (the ring of Endomorphisms of the $\Bbb R$-module $\Bbb R^n$), which is isomorphic to the ring of $n \times n$ matrices over $\Bbb R$ (this isomorphism is not "canonical" but depends on a choice of basis, so speaking in terms of "matrices" depends on picking a "coordinate system", while speaking of $\text{End}(\Bbb R^n)$ is "basis-free")).

The group of units of this ring, is the general linear group, which can also be written $\text{Aut}(\Bbb R^n)$. Note that LINEAR isometries (under any metric for for a finite-dimensional vector space) are automatically bijective (isometries are always injective, via positivity of the metric, and in a finite-dimensional vector space setting, $T \in \text{End}(V)$ is injective if and only if it is surjective, by the rank-nullity theorem).

In the "physical world", invertible linear maps correspond to "reversible" linear transformations of a space: in other words, "no loss of information". In more abstract structures, just as with ordinary integers, 0 continues to play "the bad guy".
 

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