Getting a feel for how much the Universe expands

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding the expansion of the universe, specifically how to quantify the increase in volume over a time scale, such as 1000 years. Participants explore concepts related to the Hubble parameter, the distribution of matter in the universe, and implications of cosmic expansion.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about calculating the volume increase of the universe over a specified time frame, suggesting the use of the Hubble parameter.
  • Another participant states that the volume of the universe is unknown, proposing a method to estimate volume increase by applying a percentage increase to a chosen volume based on the Hubble parameter.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the universe's infinitude and the implications for the distribution of matter, questioning whether there are stars and galaxies trillions or quadrillions of light years away.
  • One participant references the cosmological principle, suggesting that the universe is homogeneous and that distant regions would appear similar to our own.
  • There is a discussion about the concept of infinite matter in an infinite universe, with some participants challenging the notion of a defined "edge" to the universe.
  • Concerns are raised about the accuracy of models describing universal expansion, particularly regarding the assumption of a universal "now" and the implications for smaller scales.
  • One participant asserts that the universe is space itself and does not expand into anything beyond it.
  • Another participant discusses the implications of cosmic expansion on future observations, suggesting that we may eventually see nothing beyond our galaxy due to the expansion of space.
  • There is acknowledgment that while some conclusions about future observations are widely accepted, they remain debatable and depend on the rate of expansion over time.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of agreement and disagreement regarding the nature of the universe's expansion, its infinitude, and the implications for the distribution of matter. No consensus is reached on these topics, and various viewpoints are presented.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the unknown volume of the universe, the dependence on the Hubble parameter for calculations, and the unresolved nature of how expansion affects observations over time.

wolram
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I am trying to get my head around how much the volume of the universe increases per some time scale, say 1000yrs, how would one calculate this?
 
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You would take the Hubble parameter and multiply by the time.
 
wolram said:
I am trying to get my head around how much the volume of the universe increases per some time scale, say 1000yrs, how would one calculate this?
The volume of the universe is unknown, so you cannot calculate what you asked. To get a feeling, it is best to just realize that all large scale distances are presently increasing by about 68 km per second per Mpc, which translates to about 1/144 % per million years. So, pick any large volume that you fancy, increase the radius by 1/144 % and calculate the volume increase.
 
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I get it that the universe is (presumably) infinite. But what about the distribution of matter? Is it likely that there are stars and galaxies trillions or quadrillions of lights years away from here?
 
Alltimegreat1 said:
I get it that the universe is (presumably) infinite. But what about the distribution of matter? Is it likely that there are stars and galaxies trillions or quadrillions of lights years away from here?

According to the cosmological principle, which has proven quite good at describing the Universe at large scales, the universe is homogeneous. This would mean that the Universe at any other location would look very similar to our part of the Universe.
 
Interesting. So not only is space infinite, but there is also an infinite amount of matter in the universe.
 
We do not know if the universe is infinite or not.
 
But if it is, then there would also be an infinite amount of matter, right? I used to envision the universe as having a sphere of matter that is expanding outward, but beyond the edge of the furthest matter lie endless expanses of empty space.
 
Alltimegreat1 said:
But if it is, then there would also be an infinite amount of matter, right? I used to envision the universe as having a sphere of matter that is expanding outward, but beyond the edge of the furthest matter lie endless expanses of empty space.
This inherently assumes you can define a universal "now" at which you sum up the matter. While this is the case in the models describing the Universe on large scales, it gets problematic if these models are not accurate, eg, if you also want to describe smaller scales.

Your vision of a sphere expanding outwards is not correct. This is not what is meant by universal expansion.
 
  • #10
Alltimegreat1 said:
But if it is, then there would also be an infinite amount of matter, right? I used to envision the universe as having a sphere of matter that is expanding outward, but beyond the edge of the furthest matter lie endless expanses of empty space.
The Universe IS space.
There is nothing 'outside' which it expands 'into'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_expansion_of_space
 
  • #11
According to that link, space only increases between galaxies that are sufficiently distant to each other. Apparently the Milky Way and Andromeda galaxies are too close to each other for that. Assuming spacetime continues to expand eternally, eventually after quadrillions of years we would be able to observe nothing else outside of our own galaxy?
 
  • #12
Alltimegreat1 said:
According to that link, space only increases between galaxies that are sufficiently distant to each other. Apparently the Milky Way and Andromeda galaxies are too close to each other for that. Assuming spacetime continues to expand eternally, eventually after quadrillions of years we would be able to observe nothing else outside of our own galaxy?
Yes that is one conclusion which a lot of people agree with, but it's somewhat debatable since it depends on how the rate of expansion might have changed over time.
 

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