Getting Back on Track with Physics Help

[NotAThrowaway021422]

I'm currently a 12th grade student and I take Physics 12, Pre-Calculus 12, and Calculus 12. I just finished finals for Physics 12 with a 66%, leaving my total grades in the low-80s. I am very extremely passionate about physics and haven't been more interested in something in my life. I want to pursue it for university, but I know how much harder it can be to get accepted into a Physics related major than others. I like to believe that I'm pretty good at Physics but I've just always been a horrible test-taker.

I guess I was wondering if anyone had any tips for getting out of my position? Would it be worth it to re-take classes, or is low 80s enough? My other courses are in the same position, the grades would be great until exams where it bombs them.

I'm open to answering any questions that anyone might have, just comment them and I'll response to them as soon as I can. Thanks for all the help in advance.

Cheers.

 

[symbolipoint]

Being willing to start low and work high when going to c.c. or to university can serve well. You are not yet locked-out. If intake testing tells you which courses to start into, follow the guidelines given as the results. Expect to work hard and do well.

 

[NotAThrowaway021422]

Sounds good. I know it's very selective but do you think University is almost out of question at this point? I'm in Canada if that help at all.

 

[Dale]

It seems like it would be important to find out why you are a poor test taker. And by that I don’t mean self reflection or diagnosis by internet. I mean actual evaluation by a professional for possible underlying medical issues.

There are many medical conditions that can lead to poor test taking. And if you do not have any medical issues then test taking is a skill which can be practiced and learned. But you need to find out if you simply lack that skill or if there are other causes

 

[Vanadium 50]

Let me ask two questions:

(1) How many hours per week do you study physics. What fraction of that time is actually spent working problems or derivations?

(2) Would you say "I know the concepts, I just have difficulty working the problems?"

 

[berkeman]

I'm currently a 12th grade student and I take Physics 12, Pre-Calculus 12, and Calculus 12. I just finished finals for Physics 12

The school year is just finishing in Canada, with summer break starting soon. Are you done now with 12th grade and graduating? Or will you be entering 12th grade in September?

University applications for high school seniors were due many months ago, no?

 

[gwnorth]

I know it's very selective but do you think University is almost out of question at this point? I'm in Canada if that help at all.

Are you taking a gap year because otherwise you'd have already applied and received decisions for admission this September. Also what province are you in?

Getting in is of course dependent on your top 5 (6 in Ontario) grade 12/Yr 1 CEGEP courses including mandatory prerequisites. For Physics that's usually English, Pre-Calc, Calc, Physics, & Chem (+ 1 additional 4 U/M level elective course in Ontario). Physics doesn't tend to be a highly in demand major so you mostly need to meet the selectivity level of the overall university itself or that of it's faculty of Sciences. With a top 5/6 in the low 80's there are universities you can get admitted to for Sciences but obviously they won't be the more selective ones like UBC, Alberta, Western, Waterloo, McMaster, UofT, Queen's, or McGill.

Your bigger issue is that without a firm foundation in your prerequisite courses you're going to struggle in your first year courses. Normally whether or not the program is direct entry in first year or has a general first year, you'll take the same courses, Intro to Physics I & II, Calc I & II, and Linear Algebra I. You may also be required to take some additional general science courses, commonly Chemistry. The average course load is 10 1 semester courses which is higher than you probably took in high school, and the semester is a month shorter (4 vs 5) making the courses move at a faster pace. Your first semester courses will start with a review of your grade 12 material before moving on to more advanced material possibly half-way through the course. Without a strong foundation in your prerequisite courses you are likely to struggle.

Often students who say they understand the material but just don't test well, don't actually have as firm a grasp on the material as they think. You would probably be well served to make sure you actually have a solid foundation in math & physics. If testing really is at the route of your issue then as suggested you might be well served by undergoing a psychoeducational evaluation. I know it can be very expensive if you don't have coverage, but if you do potentially have an issue like ADHD etc, the challenges of university may be more than you can cope with without accommodations or additional resources.

 

[NotAThrowaway021422]

The school year is just finishing in Canada, with summer break starting soon. Are you done now with 12th grade and graduating? Or will you be entering 12th grade in September?

University applications for high school seniors were due many months ago, no?

I guess it would've been beneficial that I will be taking a gap year to work and really decide what I want to do. At the times of applications, I wasn't 100% what I wanted to do, but now I know I want to go to University for Physics

 

[NotAThrowaway021422]

Are you taking a gap year because otherwise you'd have already applied and received decisions for admission this September. Also what province are you in?

Getting in is of course dependent on your top 5 (6 in Ontario) grade 12/Yr 1 CEGEP courses including mandatory prerequisites. For Physics that's usually English, Pre-Calc, Calc, Physics, & Chem (+ 1 additional 4 U/M level elective course in Ontario). Physics doesn't tend to be a highly in demand major so you mostly need to meet the selectivity level of the overall university itself or that of it's faculty of Sciences. With a top 5/6 in the low 80's there are universities you can get admitted to for Sciences but obviously they won't be the more selective ones like UBC, Alberta, Western, Waterloo, McMaster, UofT, Queen's, or McGill.

Your bigger issue is that without a firm foundation in your prerequisite courses you're going to struggle in your first year courses. Normally whether or not the program is direct entry in first year or has a general first year, you'll take the same courses, Intro to Physics I & II, Calc I & II, and Linear Algebra I. You may also be required to take some additional general science courses, commonly Chemistry. The average course load is 10 1 semester courses which is higher than you probably took in high school, and the semester is a month shorter (4 vs 5) making the courses move at a faster pace. Your first semester courses will start with a review of your grade 12 material before moving on to more advanced material possibly half-way through the course. Without a strong foundation in your prerequisite courses you are likely to struggle.

Often students who say they understand the material but just don't test well, don't actually have as firm a grasp on the material as they think. You would probably be well served to make sure you actually have a solid foundation in math & physics. If testing really is at the route of your issue then as suggested you might be well served by undergoing a psychoeducational evaluation. I know it can be very expensive if you don't have coverage, but if you do potentially have an issue like ADHD etc, the challenges of university may be more than you can cope with without accommodations or additional resources.

I'm taking a gap year and I'm in British Columbia. This has been really helpful so I appreciate it.

I believe that I have fairly good foundation in Physics, whenever working on practice problems and such I usually have a fairly good track record with solving them without issue or external help. I'm confident in kinematics, forces (2D as well), Electrostatics. However, when it comes to taking tests, even just quizzes, almost all the knowledge just leaves my brain. It's like this for every subject for as long as I can remember. I'll forget how to do the easiest equation re-arrangements or barely use the wrong formula when trying to solve, small things like that but they really add up.

I do have ADHD and I am medicated, however I'm still having my medication adjusted so I just don't think they're helping as much as they should be. I also was forced to go into an online school for all of high school, which definitely made learning more difficult. I love physics and math and would genuinely happy with the added workload because it's just enjoyable to do, even when I don't fully understand it. I believe that not having proper teaching could also be a reason to some of the difficulties I have, but I'm really not trying to make any excuses.

 

[NotAThrowaway021422]

Let me ask two questions:

(1) How many hours per week do you study physics. What fraction of that time is actually spent working problems or derivations?

(2) Would you say "I know the concepts, I just have difficulty working the problems?"

I don't study as much as I'd like to because I still have other responsibilities, but I like to try for at least an hour a day. My issue is that I don't know the best resources with finding problems, so a lot of my studying is just going over previous equations I've done in class.

I believe I have a solid understanding of the concepts, there are definitely some I could touch up on. Electro-magnetism and Induction are some that come to mind. But with very fundamentals like 2D Kinematics, and 2D forces, I have become really confident in.

 

[Dale]

I do have ADHD and I am medicated, however I'm still having my medication adjusted so I just don't think they're helping as much as they should be.

Make sure that you get that “tuned” right during this year, and also figure out what you need as far as test accommodations. Most universities will be able to make accommodations, but you need to be pretty clear on what is needed for you.

 

[gmax137]

but I like to try for at least an hour a day

This is not nearly enough. Learning this stuff is hard work and it takes a lot of effort.

 

[Vanadium 50]

As they say, I have good news and bad news. Lets start with the bad:

First, you didn't answer the question. I didn't ask you how much you tried to study, I asked you how much you did. This habit will sink you on tests.

Next, as @gmax137 says, it's not enough. I'll let him discuss that.

Most importantly, if you don't spend that time working problems (and derivations), how do you expect to perform well on tests when you are asked to work problems and derivations?

That's how most people get into the trouble of "I understand the concepts but can't work the problems" trouble. They have too little practice working problems - and the way you understand the concepts is by applying them: i.e. working problems.

The good news? All of these can be fixed.

 

[gwnorth]

Since you're taking a gap year you may want to consider if it would be worthwhile to redo a couple of the courses you did particularly poorly in, especially if they're Calculus and Physics. That will serve 2 fold purposes, first if you do better it will raise your admissions average which could make you a competitive admit to more universities, and secondly, it will ensure that your knowledge doesn't atrophy during your year off.

Best of luck

 

[NotAThrowaway021422]

This is not nearly enough. Learning this stuff is hard work and it takes a lot of effort.

I definitely agree, whenever I have the extra free time, I always dedicate it to that.

Do you have any resources for good practice studying?

 

[NotAThrowaway021422]

Since you're taking a gap year you may want to consider if it would be worthwhile to redo a couple of the courses you did particularly poorly in, especially if they're Calculus and Physics. That will serve 2 fold purposes, first if you do better it will raise your admissions average which could make you a competitive admit to more universities, and secondly, it will ensure that your knowledge doesn't atrophy during your year off.

Best of luck

Thank you! I think I might do something along those lines, the re-learning could definitely be helpful and I enjoy the work so it isn't as if I'm subjecting myself to torture just for better grades.

 

[Vanadium 50]

subjecting myself to torture

If that's your opinion of taking classes, why go to college at all?

 

[NotAThrowaway021422]

If that's your opinion of taking classes, why go to college at all?

I think you might've misunderstood, I said I really do enjoy taking the courses. I really enjoy the learning and I am very passionate about it.

I'm looking forward to fixing all of these and I really do appreciate your input, it's very meaningful and I will take it to heart. I want to find more resources, mock-tests, or just learning packets that I can go through on my own.

Is there any chance you have any resources for extra learning and going through problems?

 

[Vanadium 50]

Is there any chance you have any resources for extra learning and going through problems?

Yes. They are called textbooks. You can pick them up on Amazon or if you are near a university, its bookstore.

 

[gmax137]

Is there any chance you have any resources for extra learning and going through problems?

what books did you use in your physics class? Start there, get a copy of that book and a spiral notebook, write out the answer to every single problem. Don't tear out any notebook pages, just keep working. This takes a huge amount of determination and self discipline, that's why most people can't do it.

Everything you need to know should be explained in the chapters leading up to the problems. When you get stuck, post here in the homework help section.

Learning physics is just like learning guitar, or piano, or soccer. Practice practice practice. Muscle memory training for your brain.

I wish someone had told me this when I was your age!

 

[symbolipoint]

Yes. They are called textbooks. You can pick them up on Amazon or if you are near a university, its bookstore.

Also check at used-book stores and used-book sales at public libraries. I am guessing that the level of books which may serve best for the purpose are the kind which all the s.t.e.m. students go through as their physics series, the ones of the lower level undergraduate. (Sears, Zemasky, Young; Halliday & Resnick...)

 

[gwnorth]

Another option is you could look into doing online AP Calc AB or BC and AP Physics I & 2 which are Algebra based or the two AP Physics C's, Mechanics and E&M, which are Calculus based. I believe you can access the curriculum for free on Khan Academy (which is another good overall resource). They would provide excellent prep for your first year university Calc and Physics series.

Whatever steps you take though I would do so with a means of raising your official admissions average. You should look into seeing what kind of average you would need to get into schools like U Vic, UBCO, Simon Fraser, and UNBC.

 

[Dale]

I am very passionate about it

One very generic piece of advice that I would give is: Don’t follow your passion, follow your effort.

Passion is just excitement and emotion. It is fun, but not a good basis for either a career or a having a meaningful impact.

Effort is what is important. The thing that you gladly work at, and work hard, and consistently, and long. That is where you will find success.

Top athletes are not top athletes because they are passionate about their sport, but because they practice and practice and train and train for hours and years. Think several thousands of hours sustained effort over years.

Same with top scholars. Talent and passion are only relevant to success insofar as they lead to effort.

 

[symbolipoint]

post #23 from @Dale
The simple reaction emoticon "Like" is just not strong enough.

One does find students who adopt the very opposite of what @Dale tells.

 

[CrysPhys]

One very generic piece of advice that I would give is: Don’t follow your passion, follow your effort.

Passion is just excitement and emotion. It is fun, but not a good basis for either a career or a having a meaningful impact.

Effort is what is important. The thing that you gladly work at, and work hard, and consistently, and long. That is where you will find success.

Top athletes are not top athletes because they are passionate about their sport, but because they practice and practice and train and train for hours and years. Think several thousands of hours sustained effort over years.

Same with top scholars. Talent and passion are only relevant to success insofar as they lead to effort.

I would structure the list a bit differently. For success at any activity, the sine qua non is capability. You can be diligent, you can be persistent, you can exert hour after hour of unrelenting effort. But if you just don't have what it takes to accomplish the target activity at the target level of performance, no amount of diligence, persistence, and effort will get you there.

 

[Dale]

I would structure the list a bit differently. For success at any activity, the sine qua non is capability. You can be diligent, you can be persistent, you can exert hour after hour of unrelenting effort. But if you just don't have what it takes to accomplish the target activity at the target level of performance, no amount of diligence, persistence, and effort will get you there.

My previous post was about passion vs effort rather than ability vs effort. Passion is not ability.

But in my personal experience both with academics and also as a hiring manager in industry, a moderate amount of ability with a lot of effort always beats a lot of ability with little effort. I would take a decently smart hard worker over a lazy genius any day.

 

[CrysPhys]

My previous post was about passion vs effort rather than ability vs effort. Passion is not ability.

But in my personal experience both with academics and also as a hiring manager in industry, a moderate amount of ability with a lot of effort always beats a lot of ability with little effort. I would take a decently smart hard worker over a lazy genius any day.

No disagreement here. But my point still stands: a person without some requisite minimum level of capability just won't cut it, regardless of whether they have hopes to be an Olympic athlete or a research physicist.

 

[symbolipoint]

No disagreement here. But my point still stands: a person without some requisite minimum level of capability just won't cut it, regardless of whether they have hopes to be an Olympic athlete or a research physicist.

You both have supportable points. Neither negates the other; so many exact details are missing. One can give a description or even example to support claim; so can the other to support that other claim.

 

[CrysPhys]

You both have supportable points. Neither negates the other; so many exact details are missing. One can give a description or even example to support claim; so can the other to support that other claim.

I already stated "No disagreement here." in response to Reply #26. But given the wording in Reply #26 and in your Reply #28, let me change the lead-in to my Reply #25.

I would structure the list a bit differently. For success at any activity, the sine qua non is capability. You can be diligent, you can be persistent, you can exert hour after hour of unrelenting effort. But if you just don't have what it takes to accomplish the target activity at the target level of performance, no amount of diligence, persistence, and effort will get you there.

Let me delete, "I would structure the list a bit differently." And instead write: "I agree with you on the importance of effort. I would like to also add a key element that is a prerequisite for effort. <<Rest of the above.>>

Note that this is consistent with Reply #26:

My previous post was about passion vs effort rather than ability vs effort. Passion is not ability.

But in my personal experience both with academics and also as a hiring manager in industry, a moderate amount of ability with a lot of effort always beats a lot of ability with little effort. I would take a decently smart hard worker over a lazy genius any day.

<<Emphasis added>> Note the highlighted qualifiers. "[A] moderate amount of ability with a lot of effort" and "a decently smart hard worker" are needed for success. I.e., insufficient ability, even with tons of effort, and a moronic worker, no matter hard working, won't cut it. There is no inconsistency to pursue.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Don’t follow your passion, follow your effort.

One thing that has been a positive change over the last few years is that students have stopped saying "But I'm passionate!" as some sort of magic word.

"I didn't really study, and I didn't do much out of class, but I'm passionate!"does not convince anyone of anything. I'm glad people are no longer trying this.

 

[PhDeezNutz]

One thing that has been a positive change over the last few years is that students have stopped saying "But I'm passionate!" as some sort of magic word.

"I didn't really study, and I didn't do much out of class, but I'm passionate!"does not convince anyone of anything. I'm glad people are no longer trying this.

I think the “I’m passionate” line stems from the romanticization of physics/physicists in pop culture. As if having a “child like curiosity” is sufficient.


OP I know this thread sounds like a lot of doom and gloom but it’s for the best. The point is not to discourage you but rather protect you from “coming down hard” after getting overly excited in the wrong ways.

I think there are 4 stages of a student

1) Naive Excitement

2) Crashing from Naive Excitement

3) subsequently working your butt off

4) Excitement that comes afterwards

trust me, if at all possible you want to circumvent 1) and 2)

 

[CrysPhys]

I think the “I’m passionate” line stems from the romanticization of physics/physicists in pop culture. As if having a “child like curiosity” is sufficient.

The "I'm passionate" bit is not limited to physics. Regardless of the specific endeavor, we have had multitudes of commencement speakers, "life coaches", and other advisors exhorting people to "Follow your passion, and the money will follow!" and similar variants. So when people fill out applications (whether for school admissions or jobs), they figure they should load up the forms with the buzz words and buzz phrases de jour, such as "passion", "multitasking", "attention to detail", "takes initiative", "team player", "self-starter", ....

I once served as an industry mentor to a senior undergrad who was applying for physics PhD programs. One of her personal essays had at least 6 instances of "passion" or "passionate" in it. I told her, "OK, OK, I get it. You have passion!"; but I also followed with my favorite Eliza Doolittle quote:

"Tell me no dreams
Filled with desire.
If you're on fire,
Show me!"

That is, just claiming "I have passion!" isn't enough; show me concrete examples that actually demonstrate that you do have passion.

 

[PhDeezNutz]

Agreed, that it is not limited to physics/science/engineering.

 

[CrysPhys]

OP I know this thread sounds like a lot of doom and gloom but it’s for the best. The point is not to discourage you but rather protect you from “coming down hard” after getting overly excited in the wrong ways.

I think there are 4 stages of a student

1) Naive Excitement

2) Crashing from Naive Excitement

3) subsequently working your butt off

4) Excitement that comes afterwards

trust me, if at all possible you want to circumvent 1) and 2)

<<Emphasis added>> I don't agree with your punchline. I think it's great for young persons to start out with initial naive excitement, as long as it's then moderated by realistic expectations, rather than followed by a devastating crash. I personally think it's preferable to never experiencing naive excitement at all.

 

[PhDeezNutz]

I think me and you ultimately agree, unchecked enthusiasm can be extremely detrimental in the long run even if it's necessary to get started. Hopefully it's moderated by teachers, professors, or mentors......but if it isn't a devastating crash is inevitable.

 

[Ari48]

Hi @NotAThrowaway021422,
I hope you are doing well and continuing to pursue your dream. I have read this post with interest and surprise.

As someone who has ADHD and was given the most outrageous list of comments and advice as a child - by so-called experts no less-, I would like to take the time to let you know that YES, your passion DOES matter. Pursuing anything else can greatly damage your future. Don't let the advice of outsiders sidetrack you. To us, passion is both, the Southern cross and the North Star.

You mentioned that you have other responsibilities that limit your time to study ever day. Firstly, well done! being young and having responsibilities that limit your study-time and yet obtain good grades is most definitely a great quality, and at your age is even more admirable. Secondly, studying online can in time become your advantage, you are already accustomed of the challenges of studying without the advantage of group discussions.

Physics, exactly like any other subject you intend to master at high levels, will require commitment, what doesn't? In my experience the so-called professionals made awful assumptions about my mind, without much respect to the fact that they were addressing a minor no less. According to them, I would have only succeeded in 'manual' professions, and that I was somewhat 'limited and had daydreamed too much'. I 'did not test well', and all the assumptions were based on such tests. Sadly, they ignorantly overlooked all the other signs that were there.

But the reality is that in the face of all of the above, I speak four languages, have multiple degrees, and continue to study today. ADHD can be a great advantage in different ways, and in time you yourself will be able to detect the aspect of learning that can intrigue your mind and let you focus. I believe that taking the year off to decide and continue to study will positively pay you back, resulting in greater achievements than if you had succumbed to the pressure of the general attitude in the field of physics and began this year. Be ready though, you'll have to deal with many arrogant and presumptuous individuals who very often look down at everyone else, and who more often than not, all look the same and even have the same sad haircut! (I don't know why, but looking like a robot in STEM has recently become a 'requirement').

And beware of thieves, the academia is filled with little parasites who lack imagination and will do anything to steal others' ideas in order to publish or advance their own careers. And physics is NO different than any other STEM field. In the long run, you'll realise you truly have
an advantage.

Sincerely,
A.N.

 

[symbolipoint]

I just finished reread post #1 and the @Ari48 #36.

You worried about being accepted to an undergraduate program in Physics or related to Physics? As long as grades are good enough and if major-pickings for Physics are low enough, you may expect to be allowed admission into undergraduate Physics program, if major field you want IS Physics. Why say, because not so many sci. students choose Physics, so the Physics departments would like more students to choose Physics. Really they do.

I'm trying to think what to say about taking examinations, and the need for LABORATORY exercises which may be missing when you self-pace study while not actually enrolled in a real class.

I have no idea about A.D.H.D. What is this like? Other than "medications", would sleep, nutrition, or exercise have any influence?

 

[PhDeezNutz]

In response @Ari48 's post. My post wasn't meant to deter the OP but rather to protect him/her so that the passion could be honed to a useful end. And I think that's what most posts in this thread were also intended for.

I myself have ADHD so i can sympathize.

 

[PhDeezNutz]

@NotAThrowaway021422 I'm not a mental health professional BUT your chosen username concerns me, it seems to indicate a negative self image where your entire self worth is based on achievement (in this case Physics achievement). This is not healthy.

 

[berkeman]

@NotAThrowaway021422 I'm not a mental health professional BUT your chosen username concerns me, it seems to indicate a negative self image where your entire self worth is based on achievement (in this case Physics achievement). This is not healthy.

Another meaning of the username "throwaway" can be that the username will not be used much in the future. So this person's username may mean (in a roundabout way) that they do plan on using it going forward for a while. We won't know which meaning the OP intends unless they let us know.