Given an equation, find the value of this expression

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving the equation ##-1+\dfrac{2}{1-x}=\sqrt 3## and finding the value of the expression ##\dfrac{2x}{1-x^2}\cdot \sqrt 3##. Participants explore various methods for solving the problem, including direct calculation, trigonometric substitution, and algebraic manipulation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose solving for ##x## directly or using the substitution ##x=\tan\alpha##, with one participant claiming the answer is ##1##.
  • Others challenge the claim that the expression evaluates to ##1##, arguing that the value of ##x## leads to an undefined situation in the original equation.
  • One participant suggests using the relationship ##\frac{2x}{1-x^2}=\frac{1}{1-x}-\frac{1}{1+x}## to explore further solutions.
  • Another participant provides a geometric interpretation of the value ##2-\sqrt{3}## as ##\tan \frac{\pi}{12}##.
  • Several participants discuss different approaches to derive the expression and evaluate it, including algebraic manipulations and substitutions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of the answer being ##1##, with some asserting that their calculations do not support this conclusion. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the correctness of the various proposed methods and answers.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention specific values for ##x## and explore different algebraic forms, but there are unresolved mathematical steps and assumptions regarding the validity of the expressions used.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for individuals interested in mathematical problem-solving techniques, particularly in the context of algebraic manipulation and trigonometric identities.

littlemathquark
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TL;DR
İf ##-1+\dfrac{2}{1-x}=\sqrt 3## then find ##\dfrac{2x}{1-x^2}\cdot \sqrt 3##
İf ##-1+\dfrac{2}{1-x}=\sqrt 3## then find ##\dfrac{2x}{1-x^2}\cdot \sqrt 3##

I can solve it with two ways:
1) directly by finding ##x##
2) Let ##x=\tan\alpha## and go on and answer is ##1.##

But I need another way. Are there an another way?
 
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littlemathquark said:
I can solve it with two ways:
1) directly by finding ##x##
2) Let ##x=\tan\alpha## and go on and answer is ##1.##

But I need another way. Are there an another way?
How are you getting an "answer" of 1? This can't be the value of x as it would make the equation undefined. The value I get for x doesn't give a value of 1 for the expression ##\frac{2x}{1 - x^2}\sqrt 3##.
 
Mark44 said:
How are you getting an "answer" of 1? This can't be the value of x as it would make the equation undefined. The value I get for x doesn't give a value of 1 for the expression ##\frac{2x}{1 - x^2}\sqrt 3##.
I mean ##\frac{2x}{1 - x^2}\sqrt 3=1##
 
littlemathquark said:
TL;DR Summary: İf ##-1+\dfrac{2}{1-x}=\sqrt 3## then find ##\dfrac{2x}{1-x^2}\cdot \sqrt 3##

But I need another way.
a) Why?
b) Explain the techniques that qualify for "another".
 
fresh_42 said:
a) Why?
b) Explain the techniques that qualify for "another".
a) Just curious
b) I don't know the techniques that qualify as "another"
 
littlemathquark said:
a) Just curious
b) I don't know the techniques that qualify as "another"
So let me make this clear: you have a precise definition of the value ##x## and want to find a value ##g(x)## without using ##x## and no idea what is allowed to be used instead?
 
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fresh_42 said:
So let me make this clear: you have a precise definition of the value ##x## and want to find a value ##g(x)## without using ##x## and no idea what is allowed to be used instead?
I want to find value of g(x) using/manupulating given equation( as I said I found it using trigonometry but I wonder other ways) . I assume that not known precise value of x.
 
littlemathquark said:
I can solve it with two ways:
1) directly by finding ##x##
2) Let ##x=\tan\alpha## and go on and answer is ##1.##
I get a solution for x that checks out. If I substitute this value into ##\frac{2x}{1 - x^2}\sqrt 3##, I don't get a result of 1 for that expression.

What did you get for x?
If you replace x in the expression above by ##\tan(\alpha)##, the expression becomes ##\frac{2\tan(\alpha)}{1 - \tan^2(\alpha)}\sqrt 3 = \sqrt 3 \tan(2\alpha)##. How does that simplify to 1?
 
Mark44 said:
I get a solution for x that checks out. If I substitute this value into ##\frac{2x}{1 - x^2}\sqrt 3##, I don't get a result of 1 for that expression.

What did you get for x?
If you replace x in the expression above by ##\tan(\alpha)##, the expression becomes ##\frac{2\tan(\alpha)}{1 - \tan^2(\alpha)}\sqrt 3 = \sqrt 3 \tan(2\alpha)##. How does that simplify to 1?
I found ##x=2-\sqrt 3## and evaluated it in ##(2x/(1-x^2)).\sqrt 3##
 
Last edited:
  • #10
littlemathquark said:
I found ##x=2-\sqrt 3## and evaluated it ##(2x/(1-x^2)).\sqrt 3##
##(x+1)/(1-x)=\sqrt 3## and Let ##x=\tan\alpha## so ##(1+\tan\alpha)/(1-\tan\alpha)=\sqrt 3## and ##1=\tan 45##
##\tan(45+\alpha)=\sqrt 3=\tan 60##
##\alpha=15^{\circ} ##
 
  • #11
littlemathquark said:
I found ##x=2-\sqrt 3## and evaluated it in ##(2x/(1-x^2)).\sqrt 3##
Rechecking my work, I get the same value for x as you did.
 
  • #12
\frac{2x}{1-x^2}=\frac{1}{1- x}-\frac{1}{1+x}with\frac{1+x}{1-x}=\sqrt{3}seems useful.
 
  • #13
anuttarasammyak said:
\frac{2x}{1-x^2}=\frac{1}{1- x}-\frac{1}{1+x}with\frac{1+x}{1-x}=\sqrt{3}seems useful.
I can't use your hint. Can you give me more detail?
 
  • #14
\frac{2x}{1-x^2}=\frac{1}{1- x}-\frac{1}{1+x}=(1-\frac{1}{\sqrt{3}})\frac{1}{1-x}=(1-\frac{1}{\sqrt{3}})\frac{\sqrt{3}+1}{2}=\frac{1}{\sqrt{3}}
 
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  • #15
Thank you. Now, I have three ways for solution the problem.
 
  • #16
Geometry of
2-\sqrt{3}=tan \frac{\pi}{12}
HI-20250315_11173985.jpg
 
  • #17
anuttarasammyak said:
Geometry of
2-\sqrt{3}=tan \frac{\pi}{12}
View attachment 358523
littlemathquark said:
Thank you. Now, I have three ways for solution the problem.
Fourth solution:
##\dfrac{1+x}{1-x}=\sqrt3## so ##(1+x,1-x)=(\sqrt3k,k)## and ##k=\sqrt3-1##

##2x=(1+x)-(1-x)## and ##1-x^2=(1+x)(1-x)## so ##\dfrac{(\sqrt3-1)k}{\sqrt3k\cdot k}\cdot \sqrt 3=1##
 
  • #18
\frac{2\sqrt{3}x}{1-x^2}:=A
Ax^2+2\sqrt{3}x-A=0
x=\frac{-\sqrt{3}\pm\sqrt{A^2+3}}{A}=2-\sqrt{3}
We observe
A=1 with + sign satisfies the relation.
 
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