Gradient Energy: Definition & Classical Mechanics

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of gradient energy within the context of classical mechanics, particularly in relation to scalar fields as described in Sean M. Carroll's "Spacetime and Geometry." Participants explore the definition, implications, and examples of gradient energy, while also addressing its relationship to kinetic energy and potential energy.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the term "gradient energy" and its distinction from "energy gradient," seeking clarification on its definition and role in classical mechanics.
  • Another participant defines gradient energy as the energy cost due to the spatial variation of the field phi, suggesting it is primarily a matter of nomenclature.
  • A participant proposes an analogy with the electric field, questioning whether the variation in energy associated with different points in the field could be considered gradient energy.
  • A subsequent reply affirms the analogy but cautions against confusing scalar fields with electric fields.
  • Another participant challenges the idea that a scalar field can represent an electric field, referencing literature that discusses scalar fields in the context of light transportation.
  • A later response suggests that while scalar fields may be used in specific treatments, a general time-dependent electric field cannot be adequately described by a scalar field alone.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit disagreement regarding the applicability of scalar fields to represent electric fields, with some asserting that it is not generally valid while others reference specific contexts where it may be applicable. The discussion remains unresolved on this point.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the potential confusion between scalar fields and vector fields, particularly in the context of electric fields, highlighting the need for clarity in definitions and applications.

Haorong Wu
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TL;DR
Gradient energy is given by ##\frac 1 2 (\nabla \phi)^2##. What does it represent?
In page 40 of Spacetime and geometry by Sean M. Carroll, when consider the classical mechanics of a single real scalar field, it reads that the field will have an energy density including various contributions:
kinetic energy:##\frac 1 2 \dot \phi^2##
gradient energy:##\frac 1 2 (\nabla \phi)^2##
potential energy:##V(\phi)##

I am not familiar with gradient energy. I googled it, but it returns with energy gradient, which I do not think is the same thing.

Also, is this gradient energy introduced because it and kinetic energy can combine into a covariant form?

Thanks!
 
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It's the energy cost due to spatial variation of the field phi. It's just nomenclature.
 
haushofer said:
It's the energy cost due to spatial variation of the field phi. It's just nomenclature.
Thanks. Is there any simple example that could help me memorize it?

I am thiking about electric field. Could I say the field vary from point to point, so the energy associated with one point is different from another one. The difference between two very close points will be something like gradient energy?
 
Haorong Wu said:
Thanks. Is there any simple example that could help me memorize it?

I am thiking about electric field. Could I say the field vary from point to point, so the energy associated with one point is different from another one. The difference between two very close points will be something like gradient energy?
Yes, as long as you don't confuse the electric field for a scalar field ;)
 
Hi, @haushofer . I am a little confused now. Could a scalar field not represent an electric field? I thought this was valid because in some papers, I read that the scalar field is used to study the transpotation of light. For example, in https://arxiv.org/abs/2009.04217 , the paragraph before Eq. (2).
 
Maybe in some effective treatment I'm not familiar with, but a general time dependent electric field cannot be written with just a scalar field.
 
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