Gradient of a Vector Dot Product

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the gradient of a vector dot product, specifically the expression \(\overline{\nabla}(\overline{A}\cdot\overline{B})\). Participants explore various approaches to manipulate this expression and relate it to known identities, including a more complex form found on Wikipedia. The scope includes mathematical reasoning and technical exploration of vector calculus identities.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents their steps in manipulating the expression \(\overline{\nabla}(\overline{A}\cdot\overline{B})\) but struggles to proceed further.
  • Another participant critiques the Wikipedia expression for being overly complex and suggests a simpler approach by adding zero creatively to the original expression.
  • A different participant proposes an equivalent expression involving dyadic products, indicating a potential simplification of the problem.
  • One participant mentions that to connect their form to the Wikipedia expression, one must consider the definition of curl using Levi-Civita symbols, implying a deeper mathematical relationship.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing opinions on the complexity and usability of the Wikipedia expression compared to the simpler form discussed. There is no consensus on the best approach or the necessity of the more complex identity.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note the potential for mistakes in their manipulations and the need for specific mathematical definitions (like the Levi-Civita symbols) to fully understand the relationships between the expressions discussed.

pcalhoun
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Hello,

I was messing around with subscript summation notation problems, and I ended up trying to determine a vector identity for the following expresion:

\overline{\nabla}(\overline{A}\cdot\overline{B})

Here are my steps for as far as I got:

\hat{e}_{i}\frac{\partial}{\partial x_{i}}(A_{j}\hat{e}_{j}\cdot B_{k}\hat{e}_{k})
\hat{e}_{i}\frac{\partial}{\partial x_{i}}(A_{j}B_{k}\delta_{jk})
\hat{e}_{i}\frac{\partial}{\partial x_{i}}(A_{j}B_{j})
\hat{e}_{i}(A_{j}\frac{\partial B_{j}}{\partial x_{i}} +B_{j}\frac{\partial A_{j}}{\partial x_{i}} )

After these steps, I could not clearly see any ways to continue to manipulate this expression.
Not knowing whether an identity actually existed for this expression, I turned to wikipedia and they suprisingly had the solution (which was more complicated than I thought it would have been.)
Regardless, I wasn't sure what steps could be taken to arrive at the solution.

Thanks,
pcalhoun
 
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pcalhoun said:
After these steps, I could not clearly see any ways to continue to manipulate this expression.
The expression in Wikipedia,

\boldsymbol{\nabla}(\boldsymbol{A}\cdot\boldsymbol{B}) =<br /> (\boldsymbol{A}\cdot\boldsymbol{\nabla})\boldsymbol{B} +<br /> (\boldsymbol{B}\cdot\boldsymbol{\nabla})\boldsymbol{A} +<br /> \boldsymbol{A}\times(\boldsymbol{\nabla}\times\boldsymbol{B}) +<br /> \boldsymbol{B}\times(\boldsymbol{\nabla}\times\boldsymbol{A})<br />

is, IMHO, much worse than your simple expression. The wiki expression is a computation nightmare: much, much more expensive and subject to loss of accuracy. In short, yech.

The way to proceed is to creatively add zero to the right hand side of your simple expression.
 
With a little luck, I found an equivalent expression (assuming no mistakes) dealing with dyadic/outer products of Del and the two vectors:

(\overline{ \nabla } \overline{ A } ) \cdot \overline{B} + (\overline{ \nabla } \overline{ B } ) \cdot \overline{ A }

Anyways, thanks for the help D H.

Cheers,
pcalhoun
 
Even though this is old I'll reply for random googlers.

Your form is correct, however to get to the wikipedia form which is more usable in many analytical things you just need to look up the definition of the curl through levi civita symbols.

Because if you subtract the two first terms in the wikipedia form from your form you will be left with the definition of the two second ones. But to work this in index notations you need the levi-civita's methinks.
 

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