Graphs, embeddings and dimensions

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between cellular decompositions, specifically "foams," and their dual graphs in various dimensions. Participants explore the conditions under which dual foams exist for given graphs, particularly in 3-space and higher dimensions, and question the implications of these relationships.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant introduces the concept of a cellular decomposition of 3-space as a foam and discusses its dual graph, questioning the existence of dual foams for certain graphs.
  • Another participant challenges the assertion that no dual foam exists for certain graphs, suggesting that for each dimension n, there may be a foam in n-space whose dual is the complete graph on n+1 vertices.
  • There is uncertainty about whether a foam in 3-space can have a dual that is the complete graph on 5 vertices, with a request for proof or disproof of this claim.
  • Participants discuss the implications of convex cells and the possibility of unbounded cells in relation to the existence of dual foams.
  • One participant expresses interest in understanding the dimension required for a general graph with N vertices to have a dual foam, suggesting that for N = n+1, a dual foam exists in n-space.
  • Another participant speculates that deleting edges from a complete graph may allow for embeddings in lower dimensions, but expresses uncertainty about this claim.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the existence of dual foams for certain graphs and the dimensions required for these relationships. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives on the topic.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge limitations in their understanding of the dimensional requirements for dual foams and the implications of specific graph constructions. There is also a recognition of the complexity involved in proving or disproving certain claims regarding embeddings and dualities.

tom.stoer
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Hello,

Let's start with a cellular decomposition of 3-space, a "foam". A foam can be represented by its dual graph: cells and faces are dual to vertices and links.

What about the opposite?

It is clear that one can construct graphs for which no dual foam exists: take a large foam and connect two far-distant, inner vertices with a new link; as this link crosses many cells of the original foam the graph has no dual cellular decomposition in 3-space.

Is there a theorem which says something about higher dimensions?

One can emdedd any graph in 3-space, but for the dual foam this does no longer work. Is there a result showing that the dual foam would live in higher dimensional space? Is anything known about the required number of dimensions for the dual foam? Does it always exist?
 
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tom.stoer said:
It is clear that one can construct graphs for which no dual foam exists: take a large foam and connect two far-distant, inner vertices with a new link; as this link crosses many cells of the original foam the graph has no dual cellular decomposition in 3-space.

This is not clear to me.

You should be able to show that for each n, there is a foam in n-space whose dual is the complete graph on n+1 vertices. Once you have that, can you say something about deleting edges from the dual graph? (I don't know the answer)
 
I am not sure if I understand.

So you say that in principle it may require n-space?
 
It may, or it may not. I don't know.

I'm assuming you are considering convex cells that may be unbounded.

I can't think of a way you could produce a foam in 3-space whose dual is the complete graph on 5 vertices. Can you prove or disprove this?

My idea with the complete graph was: For general n, consider the n+1 vertices of a regular n-simplex (in n-space). Then the corresponding Voronoi cells partition n-space in such a way that the dual graph is the complete graph on n+1 vertices.
 
OK, I understand where the confusion comes from. My description starting with foams in 3-space is inspired by qantum gravity which deals with 3-space. Now the problem is that foams in 3-space have duals (graphs) which allow for more complex graphs which no longer have duals in 3-space, but n-space.

So I am interested in finding out more regarding this n.

You can forget about the foam in 3-space for a moment.

My problem is that I am not able to show anything regarding the dimension given a general graph with N vertices. If I undersand you correctly you say that for N = n+1 the graph has a dual foam in n-space and that there is no lower n' < n for which a foam does exist.

If this is true, this answers my question completely.
 
I'm sure you can find graphs with arbitrarily many vertices that can be embedded in 3-space (or even 2 or 1). The point of the complete graph was that, by deleting edges, I *think* that you can embed any graph with n+1 vertices in n-space, but I don't know. And it may very well be possible to do it in lower dimensions.

You should see if there's some stuff that's been done in the literature.
 

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