Greatest physicist of all time?

[desiguy8179]

adlf hitler has nothing to do with einstein,he was already quite famous in 1920 when nobody knew hitler.einstein didnt work in isolation so obviously he was inspired by others but einstein is not only famous in public,scientists qually admire him and i don't think they do it becoz of catholic church or german history

 

[zoobyshoe]

adlf hitler has nothing to do with einstein,he was already quite famous in 1920 when nobody knew hitler.einstein didnt work in isolation so obviously he was inspired by others but einstein is not only famous in public,scientists qually admire him and i don't think they do it becoz of catholic church or german history

I have no idea what Marlon is talking about with the Catholic Church thing. I was raised Catholic, and Einstein's name was never mentioned, unlike, say, Galileo and Darwin.

Einstein became world famous after the Eddington thing that proved gravity bends light, about 1920, as you said. He became famous as the guy who figured out this would happen, even before anyone had ever seen it happen. The average guy on the street started to recognise his name and picture as the "mathemetician" who figured out light can go around corners.

It was really a contingent of British scientists, including Eddington, who got the ball of fame rolling for him. They were particularly interested in trying to close the rift between Germany and England that was created by WWI. It was strongly felt that unbiased public recognition of the work of a "German" scientist would be an example to people of all walks of life that the war should be put behind them and dealings with Germany should normalize. Einstein protested gently a few times that he didn't consider himself to be German, and that the Germans might not really consider him to be German, but since he spoke German and lived there, no one much listened.

 

[selfAdjoint]

Well actually, this WAS the case. Newton invented his "own" mathematics to implement in his physical theories : ie integrals, etc etc...ow, i know that Leibniz also invented integrals and i do acknowledge the work of people like Descartes when it comes to vectors and so on...so let's not get into that. Einstein used all of the mathematics from Gauss and especially Riemann and Elie Cartan to mathematically "translate" his physical theories. Most of this "translating" work was not done by Einstein himself but by others like Riemann.

This is pretty naive. The geometry was easy, it was the covariance that was hard, and nobody before Einstein got anywhere near it. Even the great Hilbert only just made it a month or so after Einstein published his COVARIANT field equations in 1915. Einstein's great legacy is not curved space, but background independent physics.

 

[EL]

...It was other physicists who started calling him a genius well before the public might have heard of him when he got the Nobel prize.

Yes, Feynman is definitely one of the greatest physicists ever, no doubt in that. What I wanted to say is that guys like Schwinger et al also are...

Anyway I have now decided to vote for...drums...Albert Einstein!

 

[Bladibla]

INDEED
Or what about Aristarchus, the real and only founder of "heliocentrism".
You know, this is what happens with polls that have only been constructed based upon "popular beliefs". "Everybody" asses Einstein to be the greatest:yuck: scientist of all time, but 95% of these voters do not even know why. They do not know the work of Heisenberg, Bohr, Planck, Dirac, Bardeen, ...Hell, they do not even know what Einsteins work really is about or what PART of Special/General Relativity actually comes from Einstein HIMSELF!
marlon

Then are you suggesting we are part of the public circle who only know about the popular beliefs. Note that the poll is actually here on the physics forums, not on a very widely publically acclaimed website.

Even if Einstein wasn't hyped up with all the public for his 'nihilism' views etc instead of the actual science, he should be a good contender for greatest physicist. From what I read on history of physics, QM is starting to be developed/discovered AFTER Einstein released his 5 papers, most importanty the quanta explanation of the photoelectric effect. Heisenberg, Schrodinger, Bohr etc of course were VERY important in the development of QM, but einstein was the 'father' of it.

It doesn't matter whether the public 'knows' about the matter or not if we are talking in the matter of development of physics and the singlemost greatest contributor. I don't think Newton invented Calculus because of his celebrity status. Einstein was what a scientist could be closest to a Celebrity, but that is no reason to undermine his achievments in theroetical physics.

 

[sameandnot]

QM is far more usefull to us (and far more beautiful and elegant a theory than GR ever will be). After QM, classical physics comes second on the list of important, ingenious and usefull physics and GR closes the list.

regards
marlon

EDIT : the only thing Einstein ever did was formulating the equivalence principle, that is all.

wow!
your whole subjective opinion is relative. if you can't see that, then it is obvious why you can't understand the contribution that einstein gave the world. people still do not understand relativity in its totality.

einstein introduced quantum theory with his paper on the quantum nature of light. classical physics was extended by einstein.
relativity is remarkably beautiful. and did i read you say that hitler made einstein popular? hey, stick to number crunching, where your opinions are not necessary. great minds are great physicists, hence the reason for feynmans nomination. of course, there were contributions that led to the theory of relativity. that is the nature of all development. you think Newton created classical mechanics out of thin air??

it is difficult to say if anyone would have discovered relativity, even by now, if einstein hadn't had the insight into nature to invision it. it is utterly mind-bending (blowing?) and beautiful. he was surely in a league of his own; totally went beyond the framework of average and even super-average men/physicists (of his day and ours) and provided the world with elegant and simple explanations of nature, that seem to us, now, self evident; ie. brownian motion, equivalence, the importance of the constancy of light;

where's bohm? is my question. plasma? anyone?

 

[Aether]

...it is difficult to say if anyone would have discovered relativity, even by now, if einstein hadn't had the insight into nature to invision it. it is utterly mind-bending (blowing?) and beautiful. he was surely in a league of his own; totally went beyond the framework of average and even super-average men/physicists (of his day and ours) and provided the world with elegant and simple explanations of nature

"Who Invented Relativity? ...One of the interesting historical aspects of the modern relativity theory is that, although often regarded as the highly original and even revolutionary contribution of a single individual, almost every idea and formula of the theory had been anticipated by others." --http://www.mathpages.com/rr/s8-08/8-08.htm

 

[fourier jr]

re: "einstein could only do what he did because of so-&-so"

he was still the one who saw connections where previously people thought there could be none. he was the man for his time & place, just as euler came onto the stage at the "right time" (not long after the birth of calculus, complex numbers, differential equations, mechanics, etc etc) so did einstein. in 1905 physics was ripe for someone to come along & bring everything together, and that happened to be einstein. that doesn't mean that just anyone could have done what he did; he's one of the greatest because he saw all the connections that nobody else did.

that's why i voted for him but after thinking twice about it what galileo did (unifying math & science) is much more significant than any of einstein's (or anyone else's) contributions.

 

[Aether]

...he's one of the greatest because he saw all the connections that nobody else did.

For example? And for each example, please cite an experiment that proves the point (e.g., unproven/unprovable, coordinate-system dependent, etc. conjectures don't count).

 

[Lisa!]

I checked the poll and yes, you actually voted for Einstein. Can you please tell me why ?
marlon

Again Spanish inquistion!

Mostly because of his personality! I think he was the way a scientist should be! Of course that's not the only reason. I used to think Einstein wasn't as great as some people say when I was at high school, but the university changed my mind about him.(who knows perhaps if I ever decide to get my MS and PhD :yuck: , I'd choose another person.)
You know personally I don't like these kind of questions and I don't know why some people take them so seriously.

with respect to all scientists

 

[marlon]

Again Spanish inquistion!

:rofl: Opps, i take it you are no fan of mine. Have we met before ?

Mostly because of his personality! I think he was the way a scientist should be!

You mean a lousy housefather, cheating husband and begifted with inferior communicative capabilities.

Anyhow, thanks for answering...the Inquisition will notify you of our verdict, ok ?


regards
marlon

 

[marlon]

This is pretty naive. The geometry was easy, it was the covariance that was hard, and nobody before Einstein got anywhere near it. Even the great Hilbert only just made it a month or so after Einstein published his COVARIANT field equations in 1915.

I am sorry but you make it sound like Einstein created or even implemented his own mathematical formalism to translate his physical ideas. This was NOT the case. Einstein stole the math from other people. Ofcourse this is NOT a bad thing but it DOES need to be mentioned.

Einstein's great legacy is not curved space, but background independent physics.

True...but most of the maths used to formalize this concept (which was indeed Einstein's legacy) was already known. This mathematics was used within the GR context with the help of many other scientists that contributed far more on this than Einstein himself. When do you ever acclaim these people for their work. That is my point



regards
marlon

 

[marlon]

adlf hitler has nothing to do with einstein,he was already quite famous in 1920 when nobody knew hitler.einstein didnt work in isolation so obviously he was inspired by others but einstein is not only famous in public,scientists qually admire him and i don't think they do it becoz of catholic church or german history

Once SR became an established physical theory a vivid discussion arose in Germany on the topic of "relativity of time"...The Catholic Church did not want to accept this fact for the obvious reasons.

In politics, the discussion of relativity extended to the relativity of morals, ethics, tradition. This was a very broad and agitated debate between progressive and conservative Germany. Einstein was a big participator into these discussions.

Now, The link with Hitler is very well known. I am ofcourse not referring to Hitler himself but to the political regime under Hitler. Einstein got a lot of publicity from this regime for all the very well known reasons. this just needs to be mentioned.

regards
marlon

EDIT : and i really do not think that the average man in the street really cared about some mathematician that figured out that light can bend around corners. In that day and age, the average man was not like us, he was very busy with providing for his family and...basically...surviving. Especially in the Interbellum Period.

 

[Lisa!]

:rofl: Opps, i take it you are no fan of mine.

That depends on you:
I just can't get along well with people who're so argumentative. They tend to misunderstand you and they're opinionated...
So if you'd be the way I said, certainly I can never be a fan of you!

Have we met before ?

Sounds like you don't have a good memory!


Never mind! People say my memory is frighteningly great!:shy:

You mean a lousy housefather, cheating husband and begifted with inferior communicative capabilities.

Since I was certain you'd think like that, I mentioned what I mean by his personality! He was frank, humble, courageous and openminded. and he was a great thinker...(note that I have reasons for what I'm saying)

Anyhow, thanks for answering...the Inquisition will notify you of our verdict, ok ?

Oh great! But you know I don't care about others' verdict.
Regards

 

[marlon]

That depends on you:
I just can't get along well with people who're so argumentative. They tend to misunderstand you and they're opinionated...

You are being a bit easy on this. Asking you why you think a certain way is not equal to being "argumentative". If "they" tend to misunderstand you, maybe asking questions is just about avoiding that. I think you are just a bit afraid of really speaking your mind and thinking like an adult.

Don't worry, wisdom comes with age...



ps : doesn't it strike you as being strange that YOU are the one passing the first judgements ? In some parts of the world, people call this "hippocrite"

Sounds like you don't have a good memory!

I do know we had some discussions before but what i meant with this question is how can you pass judgement on me , based upon the few superficial/hollow talks we had before ?

openminded.

Really, well not for other scientists' work. Just look at his INCORRECT opinions on the very fundaments of QM.

I know you think he was a great thinker, he question is WHY DO YOU THINK THAT ? This is a question you still have not answered.

Oh great! But you know I don't care about others' verdict.
Regards

That is very cool of you to say that. I completely agree with you

regards
marlon

 

[Reshma]

I voted for Galileo but my personal favourite is Michio Kaku .

 

[zoobyshoe]

Once SR became an established physical theory a vivid discussion arose in Germany on the topic of "relativity of time"...The Catholic Church did not want to accept this fact for the obvious reasons.

This may be the case, but it can't have been an important issue in his life, or to the church, because it is a completely obscure contoversy. If the Church adopted an official stance against Relativity, they certainly never pushed it very much.

Now, The link with Hitler is very well known. I am ofcourse not referring to Hitler himself but to the political regime under Hitler. Einstein got a lot of publicity from this regime for all the very well known reasons. this just needs to be mentioned.

It's really the other way around. Einstein's fame attracted the attention and hostility of anti-semitic factions. They made a special point of trying to "debunk" relativity in several journals and public lectures because they felt he was getting too much worldwide attention and admiration for "a jew". The attacks on him didn't precipitate his fame, the fame precipitated the attacks.

EDIT : and i really do not think that the average man in the street really cared about some mathematician that figured out that light can bend around corners. In that day and age, the average man was not like us, he was very busy with providing for his family and...basically...surviving. Especially in the Interbellum Period.

True, and I'm not saying they particularly cared, just that they became familiar with the name and associated it with some kind of scientific achievement that other "mathemetitians" seemed to be exited about. "Oh yeah, Einstein. Something about light going around corners, or something". More sophisticated people with some education appreciated it on the level of a theory having predicted an effect before anyone had actually ever observed that effect. The results of Eddington's observations, for some reason, was made into a news story, and published in regular daily newspaper around the world. It wasn't limited to science journals. That was kind of unusual in and of itself, but it's what started all the attention Einstein got all his life.

 

[marlon]

The results of Eddington's observations, for some reason, was made into a news story, and published in regular daily newspaper around the world.

All you said in your last post is very true. Again, i just want to point out that Einstein's fame comes from those reasons, but from the ones i mentioned as well.

Haven't you ever wondered why Eddington's observations were world news ? The answer is just what i am trying to say. Because they proved "this infamous theory" that "everything is relative"...The seed for the entire discussion is the relativity aspect coupled to morals/ethics and traditions...

regards
marlon

 

[zoobyshoe]

Haven't you ever wondered why Eddington's observations were world news ? The answer is just what i am trying to say. Because they proved "this infamous theory" that "everything is relative"...The seed for the entire discussion is the relativity aspect coupled to morals/ethics and traditions...

Thing is, SR wasn't "infamous" yet when Eddington did his observations. There was really only a small core of influential physicists who were exited about SR. The world heard about the theory and the news of confirmatory evidence at the same time. No one outside of a select group of physicists was sitting around wondering if that Einstein guy could be right about everything being relative. They didn't even know anyone had proposed such a thing till the announcement the bending of light by gravity had been confirmed.

I just took a look into a biography and I think the real reason newspapers decided to pick this story up is explained in this quote from a letter by Robert Lawson, who was a correspondent for Nature: (writing fom Berlin)

"The talk here is of almost nothing but Einstein, and if he were to come here now I think he would be welcomed like a victorious general. The fact that a theory formulated by a German has been confirmed by observations on the part of Englishmen has brought the possibility of cooperation between these two scientifically minded nations much closer. Quite apart from the great scientific value of his brilliant theory, Einstein has done mankind an incalcuable service."

Einstein, The Life and Times, Ronald W. Clark, pp.296-297

It's as I mentioned before: this apparent "cooperation" of two former enemy nations, was taken as a sign of great hope. The story was probably widely circulated for this message above all others: enemies can make up, learn to get along and work together.

 

[Lisa!]

You are being a bit easy on this. Asking you why you think a certain way is not equal to being "argumentative". If "they" tend to misunderstand you, maybe asking questions is just about avoiding that. I think you are just a bit afraid of really speaking your mind and thinking like an adult.

That's not true. I guess you didn't get what I meant there and I have to admit that it was all my fault. I really like to exchange my ideas with other people and speak my mind to them.
But you know some people just want to disagree with you without listening and thinking about what you're really saying. You say something and they hear something else!(I have a thread about misunderstanding and we had a very nice discussion with some people about that. If you'd read that thread, you can get what kind of misunderstanding I'm talking about). Hope you wouldn't think I was referring to you as a argumentative person in a negative way. Honestly I just barely know you and in fact we'd never argued about anything since now.(we've just talked(and not argued) about some trivial things like my photo.)


Why I said ' Spanish inquistion':
Wasn't it?:tongue2: just go read your reply to this thread(24th post), and I guess you get what I mean by that. Sounds like you want to know if I really want him or I've just voted for him because he's the only famous name on this list)
Anyhow that was just a joke. Don't take it so seriously!

Don't worry, wisdom comes with age...

Don't agree with you on that! That depends on the person!

I do know we had some discussions before but what i meant with this question is how can you pass judgement on me , based upon the few superficial/hollow talks we had before ?

I never passed judgement on you, in any of my posts! But I guess you did when you talked about Einstein's fans in 1 of your post!(and again you've passed some judgement on me when I was just new here )
Note that I just said 'Spanish Inq.', then you said 'have we met before?'! So why do you say I've passed judgement on you?

In my second reply to your post I said: I don't know you well now.(so I can't be a fan of you now and if you would be 'argumatetive,...', I can never be.)For no better reason that I simply don't respond to people with this characteristic. So since I'm talking to you now, that means I don't think of you as a person with that characteristic!
(so again no judgement yet!)

Really, well not for other scientists' work. Just look at his INCORRECT opinions on the very fundaments of QM.

I said he's openminded because he tried to see the world different from others.(his theories on secial and general relativity) As you know some other scientists did lots of work on this area, but since they couldn't accept the fundamentals of relativity, they just gave up and didn't continue their work!

I know you think he was a great thinker, he question is WHY DO YOU THINK THAT ? This is a question you still have not answered.

I don't know what I should say here. His theories aren't enough reason for that? Most of physicists are mathematicians in fact. They just work with math equations to get something new, they just don't think. But as you know he wasn't a good math., so he must think a lot find something new and then describe it with math equations!(in fact ask someone to do it for him!:tongue2: )

Then again I'm telling you that I just don't like these questins and I just took it as a joke when I said 'Einstein! because I feel more comfortable with him...'

Regards

 

[Chi Meson]

What is the deal with the anti-Einstein faction? I guess it's polls like this that make us wish the "other guys" got more credit. So that's why I voted for JC Maxwell. I can't say that anyone of these great physicists was greater than the others, but I love the story about Maxwell:
While at University of Edinborough, he was told to attend chapel at 5:00 AM, to which he replied "Aye, I suppose I can stay up that late."

 

[marlon]

Why I said ' Spanish inquistion':
Wasn't it?:tongue2: just go read your reply to this thread(24th post), and I guess you get what I mean by that.

I checked that post, but i am sorry because i really do not get the link.

Besides, for your information, i do not think that the Spanish Inquisition is funny.

Sounds like you want to know if I really want him or I've just voted for him because he's the only famous name on this list)

Yes indeed, and i am still waiting for an answer to that question. Permit me to speak my mind : "I have a gut feeling you are, for some reason, not willing to understand what my question is about."

Don't agree with you on that! That depends on the person!

Actually, you are right on this one.

I never passed judgement on you, in any of my posts!

Yes you did, when you started describing "argumentative people" and how you are not comfortable with them because they "never listen or never get your point". These are your own words and you were referring to me. Why else would you have brought that up, especially at the beginning of your first reply to me ?

But I guess you did when you talked about Einstein's fans in 1 of your post!

How is that ? By saying that most people do not even know what Einstein's work is about ? Well, isn't this the truth ?

(and again you've passed some judgement on me when I was just new here )

Ooo ? Really ? I have difficulties believing that, sorry...
But i do not think this is even relevant to our discussion here.

Note that I just said 'Spanish Inq.', then you said 'have we met before?'! So why do you say I've passed judgement on you?

Why , :rofl: err, perhaps by bringing up Spanish Inquisition ? Or is that supposed to be a complement ? If so, please enlighten me because i do not get it.

In my second reply to your post I said: I don't know you well now.(so I can't be a fan of you now and if you would be 'argumatetive,...', I can never be.)For no better reason that I simply don't respond to people with this characteristic. So since I'm talking to you now, that means I don't think of you as a person with that characteristic!

Ok point taken. this is clear...

(so again no judgement yet!)

Are you sure ? You are excluding people here just based upon the fact that you do not like them. This is not very mature and since maturity does not come with age, what can we deduce from this ? What if your boss is someone with this caracteristic, hmmm?

I said he's openminded because he tried to see the world different from others.(his theories on secial and general relativity)

ok, true, but this counts for many scientists. Why are you not mentioning the people that founded QM ? Why does Einstein deserve this extra credit, according to you ? Beware, i am not contesting your choice, i am just asking for clarification.

I don't know what I should say here. His theories aren't enough reason for that?

But that counts for Bohr, Dirac, Heisenberg, Newton, ...too ? Again why Einstein out all of these people ?

Most of physicists are mathematicians in fact. They just work with math equations to get something new, they just don't think.

Sorry, but this is absolutely not true.

regards
marlon

 

[Lisa!]

I'm very immature. I just don't know what QM is! In fact I know nothing of physics and I don't want to know right now. Bohr is the greatest physicists of all time.At least his son was a physicist too.(honestly he really is a great physicist) I just voted for Einstein because I've never heard of other names on the list. I'm afraid of speaking my mind to people!...
So tell me what can I do with this all stupidity and immaturity?
Now I have to go because I'm late!

 

[marlon]

I'm very immature. I just don't know what QM is!

:grumpy:
Arrghh, i really should have become a lawer instead of a physicist.

So tell me what can I do with this all stupidity and immaturity?

Nothing

regards
marlon

 

[MSI]

feyman is really great .. but not all time :) , i think it must be bohr or instien

 

[Anttech]

I voted Galileo, but I would have voted for Archimedes... Both were making observations regarding our Universe with only having the shoulders of dwarfs to stand on ;-) They also both changed the way we thought with regard to science radically.

Newton and Einstein were both great men, and deserve to be there, and made great descoveries in there time...

 

[quantumdude]

Newton is no physicist,

Very much untrue. Newton is arguably the greatest physicist ever (though I voted for Einstein). Newton's laws of motion are not purely mathematical results. They are contingent statements about the 'non-analytic' world, and have proven to be very reliable.

 

[Aether]

What is the deal with the anti-Einstein faction?

What anti-Einstein faction? Perhaps you are referring to the anti-false-image-of-Einstein faction?

Let every man be respected as an individual and no man idolized. -- Albert Einstein

 

[SpaceTiger]

Besides, for your information, i do not think that the Spanish Inquisition is funny.

Indeed. Everyone beware, for their chief weapon is surprise...fear and surprise. Their TWO chief weapons are surprise and fear...and an almost fanatical devotion to the pope. Their THREE weapons are fear, surprise, a fanatical...oh, never mind.

 

[robphy]

When this poll ends, it would be interesting to compare the results with the 1999 "greatest physicist" poll:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/541840.stm
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/short/286/5446/1843d

(Of course, in the 99 poll, five names were contributed by each voter, whereas here the names were already provided.)

In my opinion, I think Fermi should have been included among these great physicists.

[I voted Newton.]

 

[zoobyshoe]

Am I seeing things, or is Galileo's name italicized on that list, while no one elses' is?

 

[TD]

Am I seeing things, or is Galileo's name italicized on that list, while no one elses' is?

You probably voted for him then

 

[zoobyshoe]

You probably voted for him then

So, it automatically italicizes the person you voted for? I didn't realize that. Yeah, I voted for him.

 

[marlon]

Very much untrue. Newton is arguably the greatest physicist ever (though I voted for Einstein).

Sorry to bump in like this but i do not understand the content of your post for the obvious reason : why did you not vote for Newton ?

marlon

 

[quantumdude]

When I say that Newton is arguably the best I meant that one could make a strong case for him. The case is stronger for Einstein, IMO.