Group Theory Notation: SO(n,1) & Poincare Groups Explained

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the notation and significance of the groups SO(n,1) and Poincaré(n,1) in the context of group theory and physics. Participants explore the definitions, implications, and applications of these groups, particularly in relation to transformations and symmetries in spacetime.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express familiarity with SO(3) but seek clarification on the meaning of SO(n,1) and Poincaré(n,1), noting that the latter notation is not widely recognized.
  • One participant describes SO(n,1) as an indefinite orthogonal group where some signature signs are flipped, while also discussing the generalization of SO(3,1) as preserving a Lorentz invariant form.
  • Another participant suggests that Poincaré(n,1) likely refers to the combination of SO(n,1) and the translation group in n+1 dimensions, relating it to the symmetries of special relativity.
  • There is mention of the importance of covering groups in physics, with references to their role in quantum mechanics and the representation theory of Lie groups, though clarity on this topic is noted as lacking.
  • One participant references a Wikipedia article that uses the term Poincaré(n,1) and discusses its context in relation to anyons, indicating that this notation may not be standard.
  • Another participant questions the necessity of the Poincaré(n,1) notation, suggesting that the more common notation involving the semi-direct product of SO(p,q) with \mathbb{R}^{p,q} is already established.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty regarding the standardization of the notation Poincaré(n,1) and its usage in literature. There is no consensus on the necessity or clarity of this notation, and multiple viewpoints on its implications and relevance are presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the discussion includes various assumptions about the definitions and applications of the groups, as well as the potential for differing interpretations of the notation used.

arroy_0205
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1. I understand the meaning of group SO(3) etc, but what is meant by say SO(n,1) or Poincare(n,1)group?

2. what is the importance of double cover of a group in physics?
 
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I'll give my two cents, since this has not received any answer yet.
arroy_0205 said:
1. I understand the meaning of group SO(3) etc, but what is meant by say SO(n,1) or Poincare(n,1)group?
I never saw the notation Poincare(n,1), and I don't know if it is standard.
SO(n,1) correspond to the so-called indefinite orthogonal group in which some of the signs in the signature have been flipped.

2. what is the importance of double cover of a group in physics?
This is a very general question. Covering groups apprear everywhere really, from elementary spin in quantum mechanics to orbifold and Thurston's geometrization conjecture. A group and its cover have identical local properties but can have global (topological) different features. The basics in quantum mechanics for particle physics is that you are interested in irreducible representations of Lie groups. There is a unique simply connected group given the corresponding Lie algebra. As far as I understand, further topological properties will give you additional discrete (quantum numbers) symmetries, the breaking of which are usually studied separately from the representation theory.

This is not very clear to me, I hope I do not confuse you more than I help :smile:
 
Last edited:
SO(3) is the group of transformations on R^3 which preserves the bilinear form [itex]x_1^2 + x_2^2 + x_3^2[/itex] and does not perform an inversion on the space.

SO(3,1) is the group which preserves [itex]x_0^2 - x_1^2 - x_2^2 - x_3^2[/itex], i.e. the Lorentz invariant form.

SO(n,1) is the obvious generalization of that.

I've never seen the notation Poincaré(n,1) either. However, I know that the Poincaré group is SO(3,1) and the translation group in 4 dimensions (i.e. all the symmetries of special relativity), so I assume Poincaré(n,1) is SO(n,1) along with the translation group in n+1 dimensions.
 
From wikipedia, it appears that masudr is right : Poincare(n,1) is the isometric or affine of spacetime with signature (n,1). This notation of the author ot the anyon article directs to "Poincare group" where this notation is not used. The reason is was not positive that it is simply the Poincare group is that this notation is kind of odd. The raison d'etre of this notation is to allow for Poincare(p,q) with q time dimensions. I don't know that anybody really uses that, so does it really deserve a notation on wiipedia ?

Not even to mention the fact that everybody would use the (semi-direct) product of SO(p,q) with [tex]\mathbb{R}^{p,q}[/tex], so there is already such a notation in principle.
 

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