The SO(3) group in Group Theory

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the SO(3) group in group theory, particularly its representation and implications in the context of symmetries as introduced in Griffith's "Introduction to Elementary Particles." Participants explore the meaning of group representations, especially in relation to scalar and vector representations, and the understanding of dimensionality in these contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that SO(3) consists of 3x3 orthogonal rotation matrices and questions the meaning of representations mentioned in the book, particularly regarding scalars and vectors.
  • Another participant clarifies that a representation refers to a vector space on which the group acts linearly, with SO(3) acting on 3D space by rotating vectors.
  • A further explanation is provided that a linear representation of a group can be a homomorphism from the group to the general linear group of a vector space, with no restriction on the dimension of the vector space.
  • Examples of representations are discussed, including a trivial representation and the natural representation of SO(3) acting on vectors in 3D space.
  • Several participants express that the book does not provide sufficient depth on group theory, leading them to focus on specific symmetries instead of the underlying abstract mathematics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the definitions and implications of group representations, but there is no consensus on the adequacy of the book's treatment of group theory. Some participants feel the need for a deeper understanding of the subject.

Contextual Notes

Participants express limitations in the book's coverage of group theory, indicating that a more thorough understanding may require separate study or a focus on specific applications rather than abstract concepts.

sophiatev
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TL;DR
Confusion about the elements of the SO(3) group
In Griffith's Introduction to Elementary Particles, he provides a very cursory introduction to group theory at the start of chapter four, which discusses symmetries. He introduces SO(n) as "the group of real, orthogonal, n x n matrices of determinant 1 is SO(n); SO(n) may be thought of as the group of all rotations in a space of n dimensions", pg. 118. Based on this description, it seems that the elements of the SO(3) group would be the set of 3 x 3 orthogonal rotation matrices. Then later, on page 119 he asserts that "Actually, you have already encountered several examples of group representations, probably without realizing it: an ordinary scalar belongs to the one-dimensional representation of the rotation group, SO(3), and a vector belongs to the three-dimensional representation". What exactly does he mean by this? Clearly neither is a matrix, so I don't quite see how this is true. And how can there be a one-dimensional representation of a group that seems to inherently be in 3D space? (Sorry if this is a question with a very simple answer, this is my first time reading about group theory.)
 
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A representation here means a vector space on which the group acts (linearly). The word might make you think that it means a way of representing (as in expressing it in some way) the group itself, but it only means way the group acts on the space. For example SO(3) rotates vectors in three space, so the 3D space is a representation of the group. The group acts by multiplication on the space of all 3x3 matrices. And many others.
 
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sophiatev said:
What exactly does he mean by this? Clearly neither is a matrix, so I don't quite see how this is true. And how can there be a one-dimensional representation of a group that seems to inherently be in 3D space?
A (linear) representation of a group ##G## on a vector space ##V## is a group homomorphism ##\varphi\, : \,G\longrightarrow GL(V)##.

There is no a priori restriction for the dimension of ##V##. In the one dimensional case we could e.g. consider the left multiplication with the determinant: ##\varphi(g)\, : \,(\lambda \longmapsto \det(g)\cdot \lambda)##. Not very interesting for ##g\in G=SO(3)##, admitted, but it fulfills the required conditions.

In case ##\dim V=3## we have the matrix application on vectors as natural representation (= group homomorphism = operation) on ##V=\mathbb{R}^3##, namely ##\varphi(g)(\vec{v})=g \cdot \vec{v}##.

There is always the trivial representation ##\varphi(g)=\operatorname{id}_V## which maps any group element (here orthogonal matrix) on the identity in ##GL(V)##. This shows that for any dimension of ##V## there is at least one representation. The one dimensional example above with the determinant is indeed the trivial representation, since all determinants are equal ##1##, so ##\lambda## maps onto ##\lambda##, regardless which ##g\in SO(3)## we choose.
 
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Thank you, this makes more sense to me now!
 
sophiatev said:
Thank you, this makes more sense to me now!
I'm working my way through that book. In my opinion there is too little in the book to give you a working knowledge of the group theory underpinning the subject. Either you take time out to learn that separately or, what i did, was focus on the specific symmetries inherent in the material. And not worry about the abstract maths behind the scenes.
 
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PeroK said:
I'm working my way through that book. In my opinion there is too little in the book to give you a working knowledge of the group theory underpinning the subject. Either you take time out to learn that separately or, what i did, was focus on the specific symmetries inherent in the material. And not worry about the abstract maths behind the scenes.
Yeah, I've had to take the latter approach as well. Maybe I'll have time in the future to really learn group theory and then revisit the concepts in more depth.
 
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