Hawking Radiation: Explaining the Evaporation Effect

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around Hawking radiation and its relation to virtual particles, exploring the mechanisms of black hole evaporation and the conceptual challenges associated with these ideas. Participants engage with theoretical implications, interpretations, and the nature of event horizons.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the presence of one particle trapped by the event horizon and one escaping truly indicates black hole evaporation, suggesting a net gain in mass for the black hole.
  • Another participant counters that the mass of both particles originates from the black hole, implying that the escaping particle results in a mass loss equal to its own mass.
  • A different viewpoint introduces skepticism about the concept of negative mass being absorbed by black holes, describing it as a "spooky" aspect of entanglement.
  • One participant notes that the depiction of Hawking radiation involving virtual particle pairs may not be the most useful framework, emphasizing the significant disagreement among experts regarding the phenomena near event horizons and the status of virtual particles.
  • A participant raises a question about the precision of the event horizon's shape and whether it can effectively separate virtual particles, considering the potential fuzziness of the horizon's surface.
  • Another participant discusses the relationship between the uncertainty principle and the event horizon, suggesting that the fuzziness may be constrained by the energy of the virtual particles and their relativistic nature.
  • One participant reiterates that Hawking's reference to virtual particles is primarily an analogy to convey complex mathematical concepts, rather than a definitive description of the underlying processes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of Hawking radiation and the role of virtual particles, indicating that multiple competing perspectives exist without a clear consensus.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the nature of event horizons, the validity of the virtual particle framework, and the implications of mass changes in black holes. The discussion reflects a range of assumptions and interpretations that are not universally accepted.

thetexan
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I'm reading this article...

"Hawking proposed that the Universe is filled with 'virtual particles' that, according to what we know about how quantum mechanics works, blink in and out of existence and annihilate each other as soon as they come in contact - except if they happen to appear on either side of a black hole's event horizon. Basically, one particle gets swallowed up by the black hole, and the other radiates away into space." Science Alert

Even if that is true wouldn't that mean that there is one of the two particles trapped by the horizon? One particle being trapped and one escaping doesn't mean that the black hole is evaporating does it? It seems that there is a net gain of one particle adding to the mass of the black hole.

Can someone explain the evaporation effect please as it relates to the virtual particle theory please?

tex
 
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thetexan said:
Even if that is true wouldn't that mean that there is one of the two particles trapped by the horizon?

That's right.

thetexan said:
One particle being trapped and one escaping doesn't mean that the black hole is evaporating does it?

Indeed it does.

thetexan said:
It seems that there is a net gain of one particle adding to the mass of the black hole.

The issue is that the mass of both particles comes from the mass of the black hole. So if one particle gets sucked up and one escapes then the black hole loses mass equal to the mass of the particle that escaped.
 
Agreed, but, the notion of negative mass being inhaled by a black hole has always struck me as one of those spooky entanglement things.
 
Many say that the picture of Hawking radiation that it involves virtual particle pairs is not necessarily a useful way to think of Hawking radiation. Hawking only suggested it as a way of picturing what is happening, not to be taken too seriously. Of course, you will never find any subject about which experts disagree more vehemently than what goes on in the vicinity of an event horizon! And the number two area of disagreement is the status of virtual particles, so this one's a double whammy. In fact, given the incredibly tenuous nature of the observational status of Hawking radiation, I think that topic must be after some kind of record for greatest amount of expert disagreement for something that is both most widely heard about by the general public and least likely to ever actually be observed coming from a black hole!
 
Is the event horizon so precise of a sphere that it can split a virtual particle into two one which goes inward and the other which escapes?

Or is that a mid assumption on my part. If the sphere is fuzzy at its surface then it doesn't make sense to me.

tex
 
It sounds like the sphere can't be fuzzier than the distance scale over which the uncertainty principle allows the virtual particles to virtually exist. Basically, if E is the energy of the particles, then the reckoning comes in a time roughly h/E, and the distance traveled in that time is ch/E if the particles are relativistic (they're usually photons). T is often very low, so E is very low, so the distance could be rather long. But I don't know if there's any theory about the fuzziness of an event horizon.
 
thetexan said:
"Hawking proposed that the Universe is filled with 'virtual particles' that ...
Hawking has said that this whole thing about "virtual particles" to explain what is now called Hawking Radiation is just the only way he could think of to explain in English something that really only makes sense in the math. That is, it's an analogy, not an actual description of what happens.
 

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