The discussion revolves around HBO's adaptation of Isaac Asimov's Foundation series, exploring the implications of the adaptation, the original material's themes, and the potential challenges in translating the narrative to television. Participants express a range of opinions on the adaptation's creative direction, the original series' content, and the broader context of science fiction in media.
Participants generally express a mix of excitement and skepticism regarding the adaptation, with no clear consensus on its potential success or fidelity to the source material. Disagreements arise over the interpretation of themes in both the Foundation series and Starship Troopers.
Participants reference various aspects of the original Foundation series, including its narrative structure, character arcs, and thematic elements, which may influence their expectations for the adaptation. The discussion also touches on the broader implications of adapting complex narratives for mainstream audiences.
Pete Cortez said:A significant theme in the Foundation novels is the scale of the Galactic Empire, and even its "microcosm" on Trantor. Terms like "fair" and "egalitarian," which stretch to their limits on a planet of just 6 billion people, may be parochial to an absurd degree across a backdrop of millions of star systems, trillions of municipalities and a total population numbering 10 to the God knows what power.
snorkack said:And yet Asimov lacks sense of scale. Start with comparing the first two stories, Encyclopedists with Mayors. Can you see where the relative scale of Terminus to Anacreon, and Anacreon to Empire, is completely inconsistent with the descriptions?
So. If Prefect of Anacreon was rebelling, Emperor and Lord Dorwin might not have cared to lose a distant and poor prefecture if the rich interior of Galaxy was safe so far.Salvor Hardin said:For thirty years now, since the breakup of communications here at the edge of the Galaxy, the whole universe of Terminus had consisted of itself and the four surrounding kingdoms.
How the mighty had fallen! Kingdoms! They were prefects in the old days, all part of the same province, which in turn had been part of a sector, which in turn had been part of a quadrant, which in turn had been part of the allembracing Galactic Empire. And now that the Empire had lost control over the farther reaches of the Galaxy, these little splinter groups of planets became kingdoms with comic-opera kings and nobles, and petty, meaningless wars, and a life that went on pathetically among the ruins.
“On us? Are you forgetting that we are under the direct control of the Emperor himself? We are not part of the Prefect of Anacreon or of any other prefect. Memorize that! We are part of the Emperor's personal domain, and no one touches us. The Empire can protect its own."
"Then why didn't it prevent the Royal Governor of Anacreon from kicking over the traces? And only Anacreon?
At least twenty of the outermost prefects of the Galaxy, the entire Periphery as a matter of fact, have begun steering things their own way. I tell you I feel damned uncertain of the Empire and its ability to protect us."
"Hokum! Royal Governors, Kings – what's the difference? The Empire is always shot through with a certain amount of politics and with different men pulling this way and that. Governors have rebelled, and, for that matter, Emperors have been deposed, or assassinated before this. But what has that to do with the Empire itself? Forget it, Hardin. It's none of our business. We are first of all and last of all-scientists. And our concern is the Encyclopedia.”
cobalt124 said:I hope (probably in vain) that HBO stay faithful to the trilogy as it was written in it's time and not try to update the thing. I fear they will ruin it by doing that. Haven't seen Interstellar, but have read the "reviews" on this forum and would find the scientific inaccuracies annoying. Inaccuracies in the Foundation Trilogy I could live with if in keeping with Asimovs original scientific vision in writing the series.
Arsenic&Lace said:I still haven't read the foundation series. I was not very interested in sci fi as a kid. Would people recommend that I try it?
In part by being the start of a new Galactic Empire. In the original trilogy, you can follow the Foundation's empire grow from from a colony of exiled psychohistorians to much of the Galaxy.Ryan_m_b said:The foundation series is about a galactic empire and a new form of science known as psychohistory. Psychohistorians create models of societies to simulate what they will be like in future, the same way scientists simulate physical phenomenon. The leading psychohistorian (who created the field) uses it to discover that the galactic empire is going to collapse leaving behind a dark age. The series focuses on a society he creates, known as the Foundation, and its mission to mitigate and shorten that dark age.
Also, it seems curiously out of date in some ways. Like Arkady Darell's dictation typewriter. Present-day computers could do direct dictation-to-print, but it's usually much more convenient to edit a file, then print it out when it's ready to go.It's old fashioned in some ways (lots of men lighting cigars with atomic lighters) but has a simple and interesting story. The first books are also very short. If any of that sounds interesting then go ahead and try it.
Seems like an analog-hardware sort of design. Here's how it might work with present-day and near-future sorts of embeddable systems. The Foundation's engineers installed some software in the control computers of the Wienis and other Anarcreonian warships, some software that they described as super holy, just like that ultrawave relay."In the name of the Galactic Spirit and of his prophet, Hari Seldon, and of his interpreters, the holy men of the Foundation, I curse this ship. Let the televisors of this ship, which are its eyes, become blind. Let its grapples, which are its arms, be paralyzed. Let the nuclear blasts, which are its fists, lose their function. Let the motors, which are its heart, cease to beat. Let the communications, which are its voice, become dumb. Let its ventilations, which are its breath, fade. Let its lights, which are its soul, shrivel into nothing. In the name of the Galactic Spirit, I so curse this ship."
And with his last word, at the stroke of midnight, a hand, light-years distant in the Argolid Temple, opened an ultrawave relay, which at the instantaneous speed of the ultrawave, opened another on the flagship Wienis.
And the ship died!
For it is the chief characteristic of the religion of science that it works, and that such curses as that of Aporat's are really deadly.
lpetrich said:Here's how some of it might go:
Seems like an analog-hardware sort of design. Here's how it might work with present-day and near-future sorts of embeddable systems. The Foundation's engineers installed some software in the control computers of the Wienis and other Anarcreonian warships, some software that they described as super holy, just like that ultrawave relay.
Arsenic&Lace said:Well I've tried Alistair Reynolds and Iain M. Banks, and quite liked both, so I've recently delved into sci fi.
Referring to Atlas Shrugged and Lord of the Rings.My Book – the one that has stayed with me for four-and-a-half decades – is Isaac Asimov's Foundation Trilogy, written when Asimov was barely out of his teens himself. I didn't grow up wanting to be a square-jawed individualist or join a heroic quest; I grew up wanting to be Hari Seldon, using my understanding of the mathematics of human behaviour to save civilisation.
He conceded that he had had a teenage crush on Arkady Darell. She appears in the last half of the trilogy.OK, economics is a pretty poor substitute; I don't expect to be making recorded appearances in the Time Vault a century or two from now. But I tried.
Yet if the Foundation books are a tale of prophecy fulfilled, it's a very bourgeois version of prophecy. This is no tale of the secret heir coming into his heritage, of the invincible swordsman winning the day with his prowess. Asimov clearly despises both aristocracy and militarism; his heroes, such as they are, are unpretentious and a bit uncouth, with nothing martial about them. "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent," declares Mayor Salvor Hardin.