Heat energy: statistical mechanics vs atomic orbitals

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the relationship between heat energy in gases as described by statistical mechanics and the contribution of atomic orbitals to this energy. Participants explore the implications of kinetic energy versus electronic excitation in the context of specific heat and energy levels.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that statistical mechanics accounts for all heat energy in a gas through the kinetic energy of molecules.
  • Others propose that atomic orbitals have different energy levels and may contribute to the heat energy, although this seems contradictory to the kinetic energy perspective.
  • One participant notes that thermal excitation of electrons to higher atomic orbitals is minimal at ordinary temperatures, suggesting a negligible contribution to specific heat from these excited states.
  • A calculation presented indicates that the probability of an electron being in an excited state at typical temperatures is extremely low, approximately 2.6 x 10^-34.
  • Another participant references a statistical physics textbook that states for an ideal monatomic gas, the entire energy is kinetic, and the contribution from excited electron states is often not considered.
  • It is mentioned that in diatomic molecules, excited rotational and vibrational modes can contribute to specific heat at higher temperatures, contrasting with monatomic gases.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the contribution of excited electron states to the specific heat of monatomic gases is minimal, but there is no consensus on the implications of this for the overall understanding of heat energy in gases.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the limitations of applying statistical mechanics to different types of gases and the assumptions regarding energy contributions from electronic states at varying temperatures.

Zebulin
Messages
8
Reaction score
3
Normally, I prefer to do my own research, but I'm drawing a blank on this one. Any help would be appreciated.

My understanding is that statistical mechanics accounts for all of the heat energy in a gas by the kinetic energy of the molecules. I also understand that atomic orbitals have different energy levels, and because of the links between heat, radiation, and orbitals, I assume that the atomic orbitals must contribute to the heat energy of a gas. But this seems to be a contradiction with statistical mechanics where all of the heat energy is in kinetic energy.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
The thermal excitation of the electrons out of the ground state to higher atomic orbitals is quite minimal at ordinary temperatures for a gas. Thereby, there is not a significant contribution to the specific heat from the electrons being thermally excited into higher orbitals. ## \\ ## To quantify, a typical electronic transition would be on the order of ## \Delta E=2 eV ##. Statistically, we can determine the ratio of the probability of an electron being in the excited state (at ## \Delta E=2 \, eV ##) vs. the ground state at ## T=300 K ## : That ratio is ## p=e^{-\Delta E/(k_b T)}=e^{-2(1.602E-19)/((1.381 E-23) (300))} ## where ## k_b ## is Boltzmann's constant. ## \\ ## Basically, all of the electrons can be assumed to remain in the ground state in regards to computations of the specific heat. ## \\ ## If we had one mole of a gas, the energy contribution to the above would be ## E=(6.02 E+23)(2)(1.602 E-19)(p) \, Joules ##. The factor ## p ## is so small that this number for the energy ## E ## is miniscule compared to the kinetic energy of the atoms, ## E_{kinetic}=(3/2)nRT ##, where ## R=(4.184)1.987 \, Joules/(mole-degree \, K) ## with ## n=1 ## mole. ## \\ ## Editing note: Initially I had the incorrect exponent on Boltzmann's constant.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Zebulin
Charles Link said:
Statistically, we can determine the ratio of the probability of an electron being in the excited state (at ## \Delta E=2 \, eV ##) vs. the ground state at ## T=300 K ## : That ratio is ## p=e^{-\Delta E/(k_b T)}=e^{-2(1.602E-19)/((1.381 E-23) (300))} ##

Whoa, if my calculations are right, that's about 2.6 x 10^-34. That's really small...
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Charles Link
Drakkith said:
Whoa, if my calculations are right, that's about 2.6 x 10^-34. That's really small...
It really is a good question by the OP @Zebulin, but the specific heat contribution from the excited electron states in a monatomic gas is so small that most Statistical Physics textbooks don't even consider it. In Reif's Statistical Physics book, on p.251 (chapter 7.6 Simple Applications), he states "For an ideal monatomic gas the entire energy is kinetic, so that the mean energy per mole of gas is simply ## \bar{E}=N_a (\frac{3}{2}k T)=\frac{3}{2}RT ## ". ## \\ ## It really is a heads-up question to ask "what about the excited states"? In diatomic molecules the rotational modes are excited states that do come into play, and at very high temperatures even the vibrational modes of diatomic molecules can make a contribution to the specific heat. (The energy of a typical excited rotational state is much much less than 2 eV, so that atoms with excited rotational states are quite abundant and the number increases considerably with an increase in temperature.)
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Zebulin
Wow. You guys are great. Thanks.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Charles Link

Similar threads

  • · Replies 38 ·
2
Replies
38
Views
7K
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
4K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
2K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
4K
  • · Replies 23 ·
Replies
23
Views
3K