Heisenberg Uncertainty: simple explanation required please

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle (HUP) and its implications for measuring the position and momentum of electrons after they interact with light. Participants explore the relationship between light's direction and the behavior of electrons, questioning the limitations imposed by quantum mechanics on such measurements.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question why the direction of an electron's movement after being hit by light cannot be determined, suggesting that light's travel direction might imply a corresponding direction for the electron.
  • Others clarify that the HUP provides a relationship between the uncertainties in position and momentum measurements, indicating that these cannot be simultaneously known with arbitrary precision.
  • A participant explains that measuring the direction of a particle's travel requires a detector, and discusses how the physical size of the measurement apparatus introduces uncertainty in determining the angle of the particle's path.
  • Another participant notes that while uncertainties in measurements can be minimized, the HUP imposes a fundamental limit on the product of uncertainties for position and momentum.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the connection between light's direction and the electron's behavior, with some asserting a lack of connection to the HUP while others emphasize its relevance. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these concepts.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding due to the non-zero size of measurement devices and the inherent uncertainties dictated by quantum mechanics, which cannot be eliminated entirely.

cemtu
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it is said that just because you can not know from where the light hit electron; you can not know the direction of the momentum of scattered electron. I do not understand the reason why we can not know from where or with what angle a photon hits an electron!
why can't we know where electron goes after it was hit by light? Light has a travel direction, can't we assume that electron bounces to the same direction that the light was headed??
 
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cemtu said:
Summary:: why can't we know where electron goes after it was hit by light? Light has a travel direction, can't we assume that electron bounces to the same direction that the light was headed??

why can't we know where electron goes after it was hit by light? Light has a travel direction, can't we assume that electron bounces to the same direction that the light was headed??

I don't see the connection between this question and the HUP. The HUP gives a relation between the standard deviations of momentum and position measurements of a particle in any state:
$$\sigma_x \sigma_p \ge \frac{\hbar}{2}$$
 
PeroK said:
I don't see the connection between this question and the HUP. The HUP gives a relation between the standard deviations of momentum and position measurements of a particle in any state:
$$\sigma_x \sigma_p \ge \frac{\hbar}{2}$$
it is said that just because you can not know from where the light hit electron; you can not know the direction of the momentum of scattered electron. I do not understand the reason why we can not know from where or with what angle a photon hits an electron!
 
Last edited:
cemtu said:
it is said that just because you can not know from where the light hit electron; you can not know the direction of the momentum of scattered electron. I do not understand the reason why we can not know from where or with what angle a photon hits an electron!
To measure the direction that something was traveling, we need some sort of detector. For example, we could have a screen with a hole in it, and a piece of photographic film behind the hole. A particle hits the film and leaves a dot on the film; we draw a line from the dot back to the hole and that tells us the path of the particle.

In the language of quantum mechanics, the interaction with the hole has measured the momentum of the particle as it passed through the screen and the interaction with the film has measured the position as it reached the film.

However, there’s a catch. The hole in the screen and the dot on the film both have non-zero size so there are many lines that I can draw between the two, and they aren’t exactly parallel (compare the line between the right-hand side of the dot and the left-hand edge of the hole with the line between the left-hand side of the dot and the right-hand edge of the hole). So we haven’t exactly measured the angle, there’s some uncertainty in our result. The quantum mechanical uncertainty principle says that that uncertainty cannot be reduced all the way to zero.
 
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thank you Nugatory!
 
Well, in non-relativistic QM a give uncertainty (say, the momentum of a given electron) can be made as small as desired. The product of uncertainties of variables that are linked by the HUP does have a lower limite that can't be made smaller.
 

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