Help calculating equilibrium number of vacancies

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the fraction of vacant atom sites for lead at its melting temperature, focusing on the application of equations related to vacancy formation in solid materials. Participants are attempting to solve a homework problem involving the calculation of vacancies using given parameters.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the problem statement and equations needed to calculate the fraction of vacant sites in lead, including the energy for vacancy formation and relevant constants.
  • Another participant requests more details about the calculations and clarifies the need for correct definitions and units for the variables involved.
  • A third participant suggests that the second answer provided might represent the number of vacant sites per cubic meter, but questions whether this aligns with the original question about the fraction of vacant sites.
  • One participant speculates that the fraction of vacant sites should be calculated by dividing the number of vacancies by the total number of atoms, although this is not explicitly stated in the textbook example.
  • Another participant confirms a calculation yielding a specific number of vacancies per cubic meter, but expresses confusion over the method used to arrive at that number.
  • One participant expresses frustration over consistently obtaining incorrect results, despite following the textbook example closely.
  • Another participant highlights a common mistake in entering calculations into a calculator, particularly regarding the handling of exponents in the exponential function.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correct method for calculating the fraction of vacant sites, and there are multiple competing views regarding the interpretation of the problem and the calculations involved. Disagreements persist about the correct handling of the equations and the expected results.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the definitions and units of the variables used in the calculations, and there are unresolved issues regarding the correct interpretation of the problem statement and the calculations leading to the results.

digeratus
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Homework Statement



Calculate the fraction of atom sites that are vacant for lead at its melting temperature of 327°C (600 K). Assume an energy for vacancy formation of 0.55 eV/atom.

Homework Equations



N = (Na)(p)/A

Nv = N exp (-Q/kT)

Na = avogadro's number
p = density
A = atomic weight
Nv = number of vacancies
N = number of atomic sites / number of atoms
Q = the energy for vacancy formation
k = Boltzmann constant (can be 8.62E-5 eV/K or 1.38E-23 J/(atom)(K) )
T = temperature in Kelvin

The Attempt at a Solution



I have a sample problem done for me in the textbook. Doing the exact equation that's in the book, with all of the variables given to me, I get an incorrect answer. This happens no matter what calculator I use. Intermittent rounding gives a very wrong answer. Plugging it all in at once gives a consistent answer of 0.

Using lead A = 207.2, the eV/K boltzmann's constant, and all the other information, I get either 0 or 7.46E24 vacancies. The options are: 1.52E-11, 5.84E-8, 4.03E-6, and 16.66 .
 
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digeratus said:
I have a sample problem done for me in the textbook. Doing the exact equation that's in the book, with all of the variables given to me, I get an incorrect answer. This happens no matter what calculator I use. Intermittent rounding gives a very wrong answer. Plugging it all in at once gives a consistent answer of 0.

Not seeing the book nor your work it is hard to comment on. You need to show more details.

What is N again? And what are its units?

If you need just a fraction, a second equation should be enough, first is not necessary.
 
It looks to me as though your second answer might be a correct calculation of the number of vacant sites per cubic metre of lead. (I got 8E24 with a rough calculation in my head). But that is not what you were asked for. Read the actual question carefully! And also read carefully the definitions and units for each of the quantities in your equations. I am fairly sure that you have stated at least one of them wrongly. But I cannot get a match with any of the alternative answers given either.
 
Because it says "fraction of vacant sites" does that mean I need to put the vacant sites over the total number of atoms? They don't do that in the book, but that may be because the one in the book is for "equilibrium number of vacancies?" In any case, I can't calculate that one correctly either.

I didn't show work because it's all one equation and everything is given. I'm sorry though:

I do Nv = [(6.022E23 atoms/mol)(10.66 g/cm3)(10E6 cm3/m3)]/[207.2 g/mol] all multiplied by (e^(-((.55eV)/[(8.62E-5 eV/K)(600 K)]))

If I calculate the two aspects separately and then multiply them, I get the one number. If i do everything at once, I get 0. The sample problem in the book is exactly the same except for the element and temperature (copper & 1273 K). That one is:

Nv = [(6.022E23 atoms/mol)(8.4 g/cm3)(10E6 cm3/m3)]/[63.5 g/mol] all multiplied by (e^(-((.9eV)/[(8.62E-5 eV/K)(1273 K)]))

But I have the same problem with that, even though the values are all literally given to me. The answer is 2.2E25 vacancies/m3, but I either get 0 or a wrong answer.
 
digeratus said:
The answer is 2.2E25 vacancies/m3, but I either get 0 or a wrong answer.

That's the number I am getting by simply plugging the expression as given into my calculator (I assumed 10E6 is intended to mean 106, not 10x106). Again, hard to tell what you are doing wrong while keying numbers into your calculator, but apparently that's the first thing you should work on. I suppose you are misunderstanding something about the way you should enter exponents and exponential function arguments.
 
That's odd; I've had the same calculator for 4 years and haven't had problems before. Thank you though. I'll see what WolframAlpha gives me or something else.
 
Digeratus, the problem that most often comes up with a calculation like this is with the exponent.

When you are doing (e^(-((.9eV)/[(8.62E-5 eV/K)(1273 K)])) it is very easy to key into your calculator

" 0.9 / 8.62E-5 * 1273 " instead of " 0.9 / 8.62E-5 / 1273 "

If you do make this mistake it will give you a huge number for the exponent, and exp(large negative number) will be taken as zero by your calculator.
 

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