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Help with an energy creature, how would it make sense?

  1. Jun 2, 2013 #1
    Hello! I've been developing an element(s) that support the existence of a creature and some mechanics within my headworld universe.
    Now, this article is kinda lengthy, and the questions probably ridiculous, but I promise I'll make it up for those who could help me out. I will also probably spill a lot of erroneous information, so correct me if I'm wrong, please

    The process has taken a while, a little over a year since I started to peer into physics to try and make these things plausible, but only until a few months ago I began to pour my time into investigating hard sci fi explanations. Not being particularly bright on the subject, and dedicating more time to highschool and art than I do to understanding, I came across some bumps.
    Some explanations on these

    The energy in question is a particle colloquially called echo (needing a formal new name) and does not originate from this plane of existence, it's simply a reflection from that universe's form of energy in our own, hence echo. A translation I guess.
    There goes a tick for story cliche.

    It punctures into this dimension from a non specific time-space frame, and manifests as something that follows this universe's rules, so as to not mess up with local laws of physics. It's main properties are:
    It's blue, it glows, and it's the miracle element to sustain a lot of tech in this story, as well as to sustain certain life forms. Plus the reasoning behind slip space. It's transient however, so it will only last as long as that puncture exists, and decay into something stable from this universe.

    The decay form is a tar-like substance (IN DIRE NEED OF formal NAMING) which is mined far and wide, the 'black gold' if you will because it's highly prized for being a superconductor and able to be used to re-open the gap and bring forth more echo.

    Now for the critters.
    These beings are called chalkurites, and look like a cross between a tar monster and a blue glow energy being. For reference, here one of the main characters that happens to be one of these (albeit a sentient one) He's composed of echo and the tar substance, the first as the main form of energy, the second to keep him grounded to this dimension and kept from dissipating.


    Their main attributes, besides being blue, big and tarry is that they're able to release ridiculous amounts of energy (like echo) in the form of attacks, and are very focused on tearing down sentient life, particularly absorbing it. And they can eat through any form of matter, though i'm not sure if they absorb photons as well--basically destroy and consume
    The blue area of their bodies are a field of tachyons, traveling on itself and producing the blue glow resulting from cherenkov radiation (ftl particles producing the nice color)

    Thaaaat's when I'm starting to show the issue--physics leaves me pretty clueless as to -how- they should operate, based on our local laws.


    Really, I'm not expecting anyone to answer all--probably none, but, maybe hinting. That'd be wonderful too

    I debated making echo tachyonic in nature, but it doesn't break with reality by only being able to be manifested in a reference frame. It can't exist freely, there's always a link and it's bound to our time and space--it won't travel backwards in time like FTL particles are told to do.
    Reason for this was to explain the blue glow. I read that tachyons would produce cherenkov radiation due to FTL.
    Also because these beings are supposed to not be affected by anything but their own energy, and the subset decay tar.

    However, this contradicts with another thing I had in mind, making them behave also like strange matter, in the sense that they would be able to absorb anything. But strange matter is supposed to be able to do this because it's super stable, and tachyons are unstable....so a contradiction there. ?

    -Would it be able to be so unstable as to mirror that destruction effect, but also be able to consume particles and turn them on itself? If so, when they're not bent on destruction, what keeps them from altering their surroundings? I know echo is affected by the weak force, but since it's high energy, would it be affected by the electroweak? (since electromagnetic at high energy behaves the same as weak force (ithink) What forces would echo have to be affected by (and able to violate) in order to not kill everything they touch and step on, but be able to at the time they want to?

    -According to sources, tachyons act negatively. To reach higher speeds (above ftl already) they need to lose energy. Could I explain the nuke and shockwave attacks this way? With the blue area of their bodies i mean, they would have the echo particles travel extremely fast--fast enough to excite others and release energy to reach these speeds. Would that make sense? AM I MAKING ANY SENSE??

    - The tar substance obeys gravity, I know that much, and electromagnetism. It cannot decay further than that though, only transmutate. It probably obeys the strong force since it keeps to itself, but what of the weak force?
    It's a room temperature super conductor, and since it can't degrade into any other material, or condense into another form, would that mean it's at ground state/absolute zero?
    I haven't decided the properties--but it's also able to, in some extent 'fuse' into echo once more, though it's unlikely and it's mostly just a matter of opening another temporary rift to bring forth more echo, not turn into it. Dunno how, not yet, ughh

    -And last one. The glow they exude are photons--well, i have concluded thus far they are photons. But at the rate it glows, and since it's cherenkov radiation, would it be harmful for others, even when the chalkurite isn't intending on eating them?

    gah, sorry for all the questions. I'm really afraid of developing something that feels like it's b-grade movie stuff--while, well, it technically looks like, plot wise and what not, I would want to make it make sense. I'm not sure if I could just say everything's explained by the higgs field, with just certain particles behaving differently
    Again, if it's worth the trouble, I'll make it up in the way I can--which mostly includes drawing pretty things, I guess. A doodle, something

    *quick edit. I forgot to mention
    I sustain (or try to make sense of) the law of conservation of mass in this case by the rift phenomena working there. It takes the energy from the outside dimension I mention there, and injects it into this one--the supply is -infinite- and it rearranges into something much more stable, like I said, it decays from the transient FTL particle form into mass, which in turn--in the case of Pint for example, arranges into carbon molecules. Proteins, organelles, cell, tissue, organ, system, so on. It's how he's able to shift to larger forms--and to decrease shape he has to 'crop' himself, literally tear down molecules and release them in the form of, well,a lot of blood and kinetic energy

    I attempted to tackle conservation of mass first, and the 4th dimension seemed like it could fit the bill. Matter injected from another plane, with an unlimited source and only controlled by the user and also by how much his consciousness can withstand it

    hnn, still a bunch of fairy stuff, but sustained on a sci fi level I suppose.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 2, 2013
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  3. Jun 2, 2013 #2


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    To produce cherenkov radiation, you need something faster than the speed of light in a medium. This is completely different from FTL, which usually means faster than the speed of light in vacuum. FTL is always connected to time travel, unless you invent a completely new universe with different laws of physics.

    Your glowing, blue material reminds me of The Gods Themselves, written by Isaac Asimov. There, two parallel universes have different nuclear binding energies, and they can exchange matter between them. This leads to very exotic nuclei in the world, and their radioactive beta-decays could lead to cherenkov radiation in water.
    You don't need cherenkov radiation, I think. Just some material which reacts to a nuclear or chemical process and emits blue light.

    I don't know why you want it to be a room-temperature superconductor - exotic nuclei are a great option for exotic properties anyway, and you could propose that they stop to decay at some unusual nuclei (because they keep some part of the changed laws of physics from the parallel universe?).

    As long as they can get rid of this matter again afterwards, this should be fine. A diamond saw can destroy everything, too, and exposing stuff to high levels of radioactivity should work as well.


    Just don't use tachyons, if you want to keep some connection to actual physics.

    You have to fix the composition before you consider which forces are relevant.

    I think you are mixing several physical concepts here, and I am not sure which.

    Is blue light harmful for others? Depends on the animal. Some UV component could be present. I think you are free to choose whatever you want here.
  4. Jun 2, 2013 #3
    Even though space isn't a perfect vacuum? I don't have an actual problem making them not possess that ability to produce it in perfect vacuum, but would it be reproduced in a non-aqueous environment?

    Your suggestion of exotic nuclei is neat! I can't yet grasp the concept, but so far I got that it's unstable. So it'd work similar to the concept, right? - and also relating to that last part you mentioned with the blue light. Wouldn't this mean that if it's fueled this way it would imply hazards? Though again, you said it'd act differently depending on animal--maybe it's controlled, ehh

    A friend suggested that the glow could simply be high-energy photons, split and producing multiple photons of lower waving lengths to produce this effect. He mentioned the example of light passing through beta barium borate crystals, though I can't find sources of these (visual) , and I'm not sure if it's plausible

    Well, the point of this is that they're able to convert more matter, either any of these three: complete erase it, probably turn into excess kinetic energy. turn it into the tar substance, or more echo (possibly more temporary rift space for energy to filter through)

    Sorry, I didn't explain myself here
    It was basically the above, being able to consume in spite of being unstable. Like the difference between strange matter and unstable one, the first being so stable it absorbs, the latter dissipates

    The rest is mambo jambo, I think I have it figured it out


    I'm really worried about this bit. If not tachyons, then what else?

    I wanted to retcon. The other universe's laws are not like this one, so it could be an FTL setting that can translate into more less virtual particles in this one, with the suggested tachyonic particles. The physical constants wouldn't permit to stabilize like this universe's, so it's how it spews things across link. Not sure?
    Another bud told me that perhaps, I can explain that echo is entangled with particles from the other rift, and the large amount of energy pushing through behaves in an FTL fashion in our definite world line.

    And another suggestion was that these links, and overall echo particles behave like super particles, and are entangled to this other different-rules universe, hence being able to be activated.

    Either way, I'm not sure if it should behave like FTL. Could there be other reasoning behind this? I'm concerned about it being FTL due to using echo as a means to use slip space, and to some extent, attribute strange dimensional properties for the chalkurites. they don't necessarily time travel, they're anchored in place but this property is more less necessary for a weird deja-vu vibe they have, of being interconnected between all rifts
    It feels like I'm being needy about the FTL, but if it really screws up everything, then it's probably best I use something else


    In regards to the tar substance, retconning again by suggestions

    This substance would be normal matter entangled with particles on the other side of rift, similar to echo, but maybe on an entirely different scale. Inactive but with the potential to turn active, (to echo) at the cost of losing energy, I suppose. Used up as fuel. It could have energy loss in the form of wasting as kinetic energy ONLY in the phasing from tar back to echo, but otherwise it works as a super conductor with anything else, regardless of EM or other substances---umm, maybe?

    And like you said, instead of being an actual superconductor, it could behave as one because of its exotic nuclei. And the part of retaining this could be to being entangled to the unusual laws of the parallel universe like you said

    an entirely unrelated question, would it be possible to have a transition between echo and tar matter, to have the tar turn superfluid? Like, a condensation phase. Have tar be the 'solid' state in a way, the superfluid phase the liquid, and the vapor echo--just an analogy

    GAH, too many questions. I posted on other sites, and picking what information I can to structure responses. I'll make an addendum to link everything,
    so far, this thread is the most challenging, since it's questioning reasoning

    thank you SO MUCH though for this help, you have no idea how much it means
  5. Jun 2, 2013 #4


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    Space is an extremely good approximation of a vacuum. You need some reasonable particle density to get cherenkov radiation. I thought this radiation should be emitted from the creatures themself, so within their medium.
    I don't understand that question. What are "this", "it", "it" and hazards refering to?
    Well, on earth I know two ways blue light can harm:
    - with a large intensity, hurt the eyes
    - with even more intensity, induce thermal damage

    It might be possible to have animals which use weaker chemical bonds, where this light could break molecules, similar to UV radiation for life on earth.
    I wouldn't try that. It can be used to create a few entangled photons for precision quantum mechanic experiments, but it is not useful otherwise (see the conversion probability quoted there!).
    Please do not use "this" like that, it is hard to get the reference.
    Hmm, I don't know how that could happen. You could send the matter to the parallel universe (in exchange for more echo?), that part cannot get a proper explanation anyway.

    Cherenkov radiation of subluminal, but very fast, charged particles, looks blue. Electrons from beta decays are very fast.

    I don't think you want entangled particles. That will lead to nothing but technobabble. The same is true for any faster-than-light stuff.

    Where is the difference between an "actual superconductor" and a superconductor?
    What is "a super conductor with anything else"? Also note the difference between "super [=good] conductor" and "superconductor".
    A superfluid superconductor? I don't think that works, all known mechanisms for superconductivity require a solid structure.
  6. Jun 2, 2013 #5
    By harzards I mean threats of radiation, to others. But I guess that's not relevant, I'll try to use your suggestions.
    On the high energy photons, thanks! Useful to know they can't be used in any other forms--not any discovered ones anyway

    And sorry for grammar, english isn't my first. Thank you for the correction.
    The exchange for particles sounds great! I hadn't thought of it that way, thanks, i'll use that instead

    - I'll have to look into electron beta decay for that. I suppose it's a subluminal then, to reach that speed...um, that'd make it travel faster than light though, wouldn't it?

    * On the actual superconductor and super conductor. I'm sorry. English and redaction again. By actual I mean that it isn't mimicking its properties, the tar substance passing off as a super conductor
    and a superconductor with anything else, is improper. I just meant it will work like a superconductor with other particles

    -And naw, no its superfluid state will only occur when it's in a transition of decay or fusion from tar to echo or viceversa.

    On the technobabble thing. Honestly, I'm grasping at loose ends here, I hoped to make some sense on a way that it'd be acceptable at sci fi level--I don't expect everything to work, but well.
    What would you suggest instead I do? I want to have this element with the properties i mentioned; blue, of massive quantities of energy, comes into this world from a rift--decays into the mentioned tar substance with certain characteristics--and is used by the creatures, and slip space.

    It could be something vague, and since the idea of this element is ambitious itself, I can work with unproven theories if you'd suggest. I'm sorry for the bother, and if I'm coming off rather dumb; I'm a layman and want to dedicate myself to art and storytelling. This is not my forte, but I'll try to work with what little I can get
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 2, 2013
  7. Jun 3, 2013 #6


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    I didn't say the conversion of high-energy photons to low-energy photons is impossible - scintillators use this to detect radiation, for example. I just don't think this is a useful approach. You would need insane radiation levels to get a visible glow.
    Faster than light in water (or a similar medium). That is not FTL.

    I like the idea to exchange nuclei between universes with different physical parameters, as described in the book. I just don't understand why you want all those exotic stuff (superconductivity, superfluidity, whatever).
  8. Jun 4, 2013 #7
    Oh, gotcha! Yeah, I suppose I can justify the blue glow otherwise, eerghhh

    For the exotic properties, it's mostly a reason to make people mine it. If it can be used as a superconductor it can be pretty useful for industrial work, among other things. Superfluidity would be a state that doesn't couple with the superconductor, maybe the 'liquid' phase if you will of the tar.

    Probably didn't explain that well, argh. Either way, I think I picked enough hints to know in which direction not to take this idea -- avoiding FTL particles mostly, and not mixing up terms
  9. Jun 9, 2013 #8
    Your sci-fi universe sounds like a very cool hard core graphic novel.

    tar like substance naming suggestion "Accretion Disc Slag"
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