Help with Set theory, compund statements

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around set theory and the interpretation of compound statements involving quantifiers. The original poster seeks assistance in understanding and verifying their work related to logical statements and set definitions.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to translate logical statements involving quantifiers into English and define sets based on given conditions. Some participants question the implications of changing the order of quantifiers and discuss the differences between various logical statements.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging in clarifying the nuances of quantifiers and their implications. Some guidance has been offered regarding the interpretation of statements, but there is no explicit consensus on the original poster's understanding.

Contextual Notes

The original poster mentions a lack of examples in their course materials, which may contribute to their uncertainty. There is an emphasis on careful consideration of quantifier order in logical statements.

Marco Lugo
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The class is called Math for EE and CE. The professor teaches from his own notes and doesn't give many examples. Any help checking my work would be appreciated and/or if you could point me in the direction of more examples like these. I've looked trough Set Theory and discrete math books but nothing looks similar.

1) Write out the following statement in English
∀a∈A: ∃b∈B: ∀c∈C : ((a+b>1 ∧ b-c >2) ⇒a+b+c >2)

My answer:
For all a∈A, all c∈C, there exists one b∈B, such that if a+b > 1 and b-c>2 is true then a+b+c > 2 is also true.

2) Let A = [9] - [3] and B = {x∈A| x>4}
Define by listing the set C = A - B

My answer:

A = [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9] - [1,2,3]
A= [4,5,6,7,8,9]

B= [5,6,7,8,9]

C= A - B = [4,5,6,7,8,9] - [5,6,7,8,9]
C = [4]
 
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Be careful with your quantifiers. Changing the order of quantifiers does make a difference.

For example: For all x in R, there exists a y in R such that y>x. This is a true statement, however,
There exists a y in R such that for all x in R, y>x. This is clearly not a true statement.
 
Sorry I'm not seeing the difference. I could see how it would be wrong if it were, there exists a x in R such that for all y in R, y>x. But the statements above seem the same.
 
The first statement says: For every x, I can find a y that is larger.

The second statement says: That you can find a single y that is greater than EVERY x. That is equivalent to claiming there is a largest real number. Your last reply was a claim that there is a smallest number.Maybe this is more clear:
"For all" can also be read as "For every" or "For any"

In the first example, it is might be more appropriate to read the statement as:
For any x there is a y such that y>x.

In the second, we might read it as:
There is a y such that for every x, y>x.
 
Last edited:

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