Here Comes Irene: Flood Prep & Rain Expectations

[wuliheron]

I love this picture. It shows what electrical utilitie crews are or will be up against.

That's nothing. The last big hurricane came after a drought had already weakened the roots of the trees and then sustained winds of over 100mph knocked them over like dominoes. We burned up chain saws left and right and I didn't get power back for a full 2 weeks. One friend of mine had two 80 foot oaks fall on both sides of his trailer and miss him by a few feet.

The first hurricane of the season is the one people tend to pay the most attention to and they've evacuated most of the real problem areas. I don't expect a lot of deaths this time around, but the flood damage could be severe. The eye of the storm is expected to hit the Norfolk area right around high tide.

 

[Redbelly98]

The entire New York City transit system will shut down tomorrow at noon: subways, buses and commuter rail (to/from Long Island, Connecticut and northern suburbs). Trains to New Jersey, operated by New Jersey Transit, will also stop running.

Yesterday I heard that the Jets-Giants game, originally scheduled for tonight, had been moved to 2 p.m. The NY sports talk radio people were incredulous it wasn't cancelled, since it was already known that NY mass transit would be shut down well before then. [EDIT: now it looks like the game is moved to Monday.]

To anyone that has a sump pump, make sure you have a *working* battery backup for it.

As of this afternoon I have my power backup for our sump pump. On Thursday I ordered a 12Vdc-120Vac inverter; it arrived this morning. If the electricity fails then my car, with a set of jumper cables, powers the inverter which will power the sump pump. I tested this setup a couple of hours ago, so I know it works.

I've wanted some kind of backup like this for a few years now, since basement flooding is common in heavy rain around here. Irene has provided the motivation to finally get it done. Eventually the car will be replaced by a deep-cycle battery and charger.

 

[Evo]

What are you talking about!? This is already a killer storm!

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nationnow/2011/08/hurricane-irene-first-deaths.html"

Oh wait.



a third man either fell or jumped off a bridge and has not been found.

hmm... http://www.weatherforyou.com/reports/index.php?forecast=zandh&pands=nash+county,north+carolina"

To all my friends on the east coast:

do not stand under trees!

and if you have a bad heart, stay in your La-Z-Boy!

The death toll is three now, a drunk driver ran into a tree.

IRENE DEATHS: Three People Have Died In The Storm

Troopers say 21-year-old Jose Corona was south on County Home and ran off the road, crossed the centerline and ran into a tree.

The Highway Patrol say they are investigating whether alcohol was involved, since alcohol was present on the scene.

http://www.witn.com/pittcounty/headlines/BREAKING_NEWS__Person_Dead_In__128521158.html

Breaking News - Hurricane causes insanity in media reporting

 

[dlgoff]

Eventually the car will be replaced by a deep-cycle battery and charger.

Now all you need is this.

http://www.target.com/p/Coleman-18-Watt-Solar-Battery-Charger-Kit/-/A-13516799"

 

[wuliheron]

Six people dead so far, but only one was indoors. A child in an apartment when a tree fell.

 

[Chi Meson]

The storm is downgrading by the hour. Now it looks like only a "Tropical Storm" is going to hit New England.

 

[turbo]

The storm is downgrading by the hour. Now it looks like only a "Tropical Storm" is going to hit New England.

I think we are in line for a tropical depression. I sometimes suffer from depression, and mainly when the weather is tropical, and I can't breathe.

 

[Astronuc]

It appears that since the eye is over the coast, there is much less effect from the ocean, as well as the fact that the water north of NC is cooler.

The 1938 hurricane stayed further to the east over the ocean.

Now we are expecting a TS rather than a H in our area, and apparently less rain.

 

[Chi Meson]

The death toll is three now, a drunk driver ran into a tree.
http://www.witn.com/pittcounty/headlines/BREAKING_NEWS__Person_Dead_In__128521158.html

Breaking News - Hurricane causes insanity in media reporting

Darwin in action, apparently.

A DUI death during a hurricane is hardly the fault of the hurricane. Might as well blame it on "Saturday."

 

[Chi Meson]

I think we are in line for a tropical depression. I sometimes suffer from depression, and mainly when the weather is tropical, and I can't breathe.

I'm still looking forward to some 60 mph wind. At 80, I would be much more worried.

 

[turbo]

I'm still looking forward to some 60 mph wind. At 80, I would be much more worried.

60 isn't so bad, though if the ground is saturated and if we get sustained 60mph winds quartering around from various directions, nature will find the weak spots of many old trees. Surprise!

 

[Redbelly98]

Now all you need is this.
http://target.scene7.com/is/image/Target/13516799_is?wid=618&hei=618
http://www.target.com/p/Coleman-18-Watt-Solar-Battery-Charger-Kit/-/A-13516799"

Actually the plan is to get a battery with enough capacity to last a couple of days without a recharge. Between that and the car-as-generator, I'll be happy.

60 isn't so bad, though if the ground is saturated and if we get sustained 60mph winds quartering around from various directions, nature will find the weak spots of many old trees. Surprise!

Problem here (central NJ) is the soil really softens up when things get soaked, so the tree roots don't have a firm grip in the ground. The wind pushes over the tree, roots and all, without the tree actually breaking anywhere.

According to The Weather Channel, this storm covers an unusually large area, even if it is not that intense near the eye. That could make for lots and lots of rain.

 

[Norman]

Current reading from the Hampton Roads area (Virginia Beach, Norfolk, etc.) are that the high water mark has past and that we had a 7.54 foot high tide. This puts it about 3-4 inches lower than the 2009 Nor'easter, which means it was about a foot too low to actually enter my house. We will see when we get back to the house sometime later this week... Though it means our furnace is completely trashed, but at least we likely have no water in the house.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Water has started coming into my basement and there is still forecast 20 more hours of heavy rain.

 

[Evo]

Water has started coming into my basement and there is still forecast 20 more hours of heavy rain.

Slow moving tropical storms can dump tons of rain. TS Claudette caused flooding in Houston that had never been seen before. Water at second floor window level. 43 inches of rain in 24 hours

I hope your sump pump holds up.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Slow moving tropical storms can dump tons of rain. TS Claudette caused flooding in Houston that had never been seen before. Water at second floor window level. 43 inches of rain in 24 hours

I hope your sump pump holds up.

I don't have a sump pump, just a 2 gallon wet vac. It doesn't work unless I work it and once I go to sleep, the water will build. What's worse, is that the water will still be coming in long after the rain stops.

The latest forecast has us back in the 74 mph wind zone. The ground was already soaked from previous rains and uprooted trees are expected. This past year half a tree fell and just missed my house. I cut down the other half as well as another tree that impinged on my house. Now there are two trees that are close enough to cause major damage and one is around 80 years old.

 

[Evo]

I don't have a sump pump, just a 2 gallon wet vac. It doesn't work unless I work it and once I go to sleep, the water will build. What's worse, is that the water will still be coming in long after the rain stops.

The latest forecast has us back in the 74 mph wind zone. The ground was already soaked from previous rains and uprooted trees are expected. This past year half a tree fell and just missed my house. I cut down the other half as well as another tree that impinged on my house. Now there are two trees that are close enough to cause major damage and one is around 80 years old.

I bought a portable pump from home depot for the times my basement flooded (water running in through the basement windows, exceeded the sump pump's capacity). I attached a garden hose to it and lowered it into the basement from the living room door and ran the hose across the living room and out of the nearest window. Fun times.

I hope you and your family come through the rain without problems.

 

[Jack21222]

My power can't make up it's mind if it wants to be on or off. It's gone off about 6 times in the past 15 minutes. Currently on though.

 

[russ_watters]

My girlfriend works at Children's Hospital in Philadelphia -- she'll be driving to work tomorrow morning...

 

[Astronuc]

I don't have a sump pump, just a 2 gallon wet vac. It doesn't work unless I work it and once I go to sleep, the water will build. What's worse, is that the water will still be coming in long after the rain stops.

The latest forecast has us back in the 74 mph wind zone. The ground was already soaked from previous rains and uprooted trees are expected. This past year half a tree fell and just missed my house. I cut down the other half as well as another tree that impinged on my house. Now there are two trees that are close enough to cause major damage and one is around 80 years old.

Ouch. I'd recommend having a submersible pump on hand. I finally got one - after I spent all night with a 5 gal shop vac and a 5 gal bucket with which I carried water upstairs all night in order to prevent the basement flooding. And the water kept coming even after the rain stopped.

In the morning, I was able to find one a few avaliable pumps at a local store, but they didn't have any hosing. I went to a hardware store and bought the last few feet of 1-1/4 inch drain hose. That saved my basement from flooding.

I put the submersible in the lowest part of the basement, but I had to be with it because it was on the floor, not in pit/sump.

After we had two weekends of serious rain and flooding about 4 years ago. We decide to install a basement drain and sump system that collects the ground water and pumps it out to the front of the property. We've not had a flooding problem since.

 

[Chi Meson]

11:45

Here it comes...

 

[Astronuc]

11:45

Here it comes...

Winds, or heavy rain?

We've had rain on and off since early afternoon, but no substantial wind.

 

[Chi Meson]

Wind gusts are picking up. We just had the first one that made that spooky noise when it goes around the corner of the house. We are still a good 6 hours away from the "real thing."

And the damn thing's been upgraded for our forecast now! It's back to CAT 1 through CT and RI (look out Rhody). Long Island is going to get hit pretty hard.

 

[Evo]

Wind gusts are picking up. We just had the first one that made that spooky noise when it goes around the corner of the house. We are still a good 6 hours away from the "real thing."

Let's hope the rain let's up before it gets there.

I remember my last hurricane, we were living in a new subdivision and homes were being built on my street. I was watching the rain going sideways when a port-a-potty came flying by. The eye passed over us, then when the rain started back up, it was going the opposite direction.

Hope you don't have any damage.

 

[rhody]

Wind gusts are picking up. We just had the first one that made that spooky noise when it goes around the corner of the house. We are still a good 6 hours away from the "real thing."

And the damn thing's been upgraded for our forecast now! It's back to CAT 1 through CT and RI (look out Rhody).

Eh, I don't believe it. Is your source NWS ? Hard to believe it can hit colder water and temps and still gain strength. I hope I don't have to eat my words. Knock on wood, Flying port-a-potties, eh Evo, hmm... there aren't any in my neighborhood so I don't need to worry about that.

I did do one important thing though, brought in my three ghost pepper plants with over 50 peppers, some near being ripe, the seem to turn yellow before turning red. Will post some pictures tomorrow.

Rhody... See some of you in chat. No winds here yet though.

P.S. NWS says winds in the mid 60's with gusts no more than 71 mph in the am tomorrow, tropical storm, not even a Cat 1. The uninformed and sensationalist media drive me crazy, it's all about ratings and not facts.

 

[turbo]

Winds are relatively calm here, and I can't hear the rain on the roof, so it's got to be light at worst.

 

[OmCheeto]

I don't have a sump pump, just a 2 gallon wet vac. It doesn't work unless I work it and once I go to sleep, the water will build. What's worse, is that the water will still be coming in long after the rain stops.

The latest forecast has us back in the 74 mph wind zone. The ground was already soaked from previous rains and uprooted trees are expected. This past year half a tree fell and just missed my house. I cut down the other half as well as another tree that impinged on my house. Now there are two trees that are close enough to cause major damage and one is around 80 years old.

If you know anyone in the neighborhood who has a boat, you might borrow their 12v bilge pump.

[URL]http://cloudfront.zorotools.com/product/full/3P996_AS01.JPG

They are designed to fit regular garden hoses, so no need for special piping. Just cut off the female end of the hose and fit it right onto the pump. But they do lose capacity the higher you have to lift the water, so you might have to do like I did and have one pump filling a bucket with a pump in that bucket also.
GPH of Water @ 0 Ft. of Head: 500
GPH of Water @ 3.35 Ft. of Head: 360
GPH of Water @ 6.7 Ft. of Head: 260
GPH of Water @ 12.5 Ft. of Head: 0

[URL]http://home.europa.com/~garry/emergency12vbasementdewateringsystem.jpg[/URL]

If you have enough garden hoses, you can connect them all together from the last pump and drain these to the lowest point in the yard. This reduces the head on that pump.

The pumps draw about 1.9 amps each, so if you needed 3, that would be about 70 watts, which would give you about 18 hours of pumping capacity from a http://www.bimart.com/skudetail.aspx?loc=k.304857_s.51A_c.168A_d.5&nm=Electrical" .

I wish I lived closer. I have the https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=3462168&postcount=753" ready to go.

 

[turbo]

Om, you are on the wrong coast! Your red-neck engineering makes you a valuable resource and you are not advantageously deployed.

 

[Evo]

I used a pump like this, all I did was attach a regular garden hose, drop the pump into the water and the hose ran all the way up the stairs from the basement and pumped like the hose was at full force. It was awesome.

This one is 1/4 HP, 1,260 GPH, but they have 1/2 hp if you need more.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053&R=100165653&catEntryId=100165653

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Thanks for the advice. I'm not going out to buy any pumps just now nor tomorrow either. The solutions provided are overkill for my situation anyway. Since water started coming in I only got a gallon or so. The wet vac can keep up with it as long as I stay awake. Just now it isn't raining and there hasn't been any measurable water come in. So my floor is damp, but no puddled water anywhere. This will change of course, but I'm not expecting more than a gallon or two per hour. This is the first hurricane I've experienced in this house so I can't say for sure.

 

[Evo]

Thanks for the advice. I'm not going out to buy any pumps just now nor tomorrow either. The solutions provided are overkill for my situation anyway. Since water started coming in I only got a gallon or so. The wet vac can keep up with it as long as I stay awake. Just now it isn't raining and there hasn't been any measurable water come in. So my floor is damp, but no puddled water anywhere. This will change of course, but I'm not expecting more than a gallon or two per hour. This is the first hurricane I've experienced in this house so I can't say for sure.

That's good, but you've got to sleep. Where's your daughter?

 

[Containment]

I know we had some bad flooding here this year and man it sucks. I hope everyone is safe out on the east coast tonight.

 

[Chi Meson]

4am and the power just went out. Am txtng from phone. Must remember to use vowels. (wow the phone puts them in for me)

Trees r doing the Crazy.

 

[Astronuc]

Thanks for the advice. I'm not going out to buy any pumps just now nor tomorrow either. The solutions provided are overkill for my situation anyway. Since water started coming in I only got a gallon or so. The wet vac can keep up with it as long as I stay awake. Just now it isn't raining and there hasn't been any measurable water come in. So my floor is damp, but no puddled water anywhere. This will change of course, but I'm not expecting more than a gallon or two per hour. This is the first hurricane I've experienced in this house so I can't say for sure.

Our first experience with a wet basement was as you described - it was damp and then puddling, and I could keep up with a shop vac. However, over the years, the flooding just got worse because underground channels developed. My house sits at the base of a shale ridge, and there are several acres behind us. Two channels probably developed, one at each end of the house.

The last severe flood, the hydraulic pressure was so great that there were two jets of water spewing through cracked mortar between cinders blocks. The inflow was probably 1-2 gpm at it's max. Once I pumped the water down, I could see it percolating up through a crack in the floor. The basement floor is the lowest point on the property, and that's where the water wants to go. At worst, I had 8 inches of water in the basement. The lady next door had about 1 foot of water in her basement. Her property is about a foot below ours.

We've had continual rain alternating between heavy and moderate all night long. According to the radar, we may be getting fairly heavy rains in the next hour or two. So far, we haven't lost power, although some neighborhoods have.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Don't look so sad, you're doing a heck of a job Ireney, and you'll always be a category 5 in my heart. I dozed off at 3:00 am and got up at 6:00. It was raining steadily, but not heavily when I went to sleep and still is now. The wind amounts to no more than a gentle breeze and I am not exaggerating. Of course, I can't say what the missing 3 hours were like. If I read the weather.com map correctly, the eye is almost due east of us about 50 miles away. We still have power.

I'm going to have to take the wet vac back to the store for a refund. It was not able to remove more than about 2 gallons from my basement. In the past I've had more water in my basement, as much as 10 gallons I would say. And while we did have sustained heavy rain for many hours yesterday, I think the total rainfall was worse when I had the 10 gallons than it was in past 18 hours or so.

While I agree that the weather channel and other media have hyped this thing to a large extent, I don't think they did a bad thing. This had the potential to be much worse for me than it has been so far, and it's too early to call it a local dud. However, they may be suffering from the Jonah effect. Jonah warned the people of Nineveh to shape up or face divine punishment. They shaped up and then laughed him out of town when no disaster came. In this case I think the hype saved many lives and the media now may be subject to ridicule for their efforts. Of course, I've also heard the usual refrain that this hurricane is yet another proof of global warming.

 

[Astronuc]

I think because the eye pretty much traveled along the coastline, or slightly inland, Irene is not a strong as it could have been if the eye had stayed over water. Like Jimmy S, we're getting continuous rain, but no strong winds. The winds have been little more than a breeze with an occasional gust. We just have to wait and see what this afternoon brings as the storm system passes by us.

 

[Redbelly98]

There are 2 or 3 trees down in our two next door neighbors' yards. One lies across our back yard, another is blocking a lane of our street. I can also hear our sump pump running a lot of the time, pretty glad that we have it.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

There are 2 or 3 trees down in our two next door neighbors' yards. One lies across our back yard, another is blocking a lane of our street. I can also hear our sump pump running a lot of the time, pretty glad that we have it.

There's a rather largish twig of a dozen or so leaves that fell about 50 feet from my house. That's it. The crick that runs through town overflowed its banks, but the only thing that got flooded is the parking lot. I went down to the Delaware river to see how high it got. I saw a duck swimming in it and the water reached up to its butt.

 

[rhody]

Pretty windy here, with bands of rain, sorry to hear you lost power Chi, Rhody child stayed with a friend near the beach, they lost power so she drove home, what a nut !

Just checked the sump and it is none dry, for the moment. Will report a bit later, if the power holds out and of course the cable for internet.

Rhody... out...

 

[FlexGunship]

Don't forget to go through the 5 stages of hurricane preparedness:
1. Denial. In this stage, you laugh and make jokes about the hurricane. You should never do this because there is an irony factor at play in the world and you will soon regret your jokes.

I'm sitting in the middle of it right now and I'm STILL in this stage. Can't tell the difference between this "tropical storm" and 30% of New England rainy days.

EDIT: I'm actually considering going out for a drive. Only because I want to experience more of this. I know it's stupid, but I feel a little ripped off. They say the safest place to be during a hurricane is your car, right?

 

[FlexGunship]

4am and the power just went out. Am txtng from phone. Must remember to use vowels. (wow the phone puts them in for me)

Trees r doing the Crazy.

lol@chi

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

S&P has downgraded Irene to AA+.

 

[Redbelly98]

EDIT: I'm actually considering going out for a drive. Only because I want to experience more of this. I know it's stupid, but I feel a little ripped off. They say the safest place to be during a hurricane is your car, right?

Uh, no they don't! Maybe if you absolutely have to be outside, but you're still better off inside a building.

S&P has downgraded Irene to AA+.

 

[Astronuc]

They say the safest place to be during a hurricane is your car, right?

No responsible person would say that. The safest place is in a strong building. Houses would be better than cars, but high winds can damage houses, or send trees into them. Cars can be easily crushed by trees or branches as some have found out already. Cars can be flooded or tossed around in high enough winds.

If too many people go out, it makes it more difficult for emergency vehicles to respond.


http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/satellite.shtml

Apparently there is significant flooding in Philadelphia and NY City.

Hope you're doing OK, Russ!

 

[Ftheog]

don't worry, the govt will help us all. I hope everyone is safe

 

[turbo]

Torrential rains here, but no heavy wind yet. In the worst-case, after the rains saturate the soil, gust winds can topple trees, crushing cars and houses and taking out the power.

 

[Astronuc]

From the radar, it looks like the west side of what would have been the eyewall is going over the top of us. The rain has gotten heavier, but it's not the worst we've ever experienced. Last year, we had a very heavy downpour of between 2 to 3 inches per hr from a cell the developed on top of us. The rain was so heavy that we could not see most of the backyard from the window. We lost part of the maple tree as a result.

Surprisingly the wind has been relatively mild.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I feel a little ripped off.

Me too. If I have to watch this much news coverage of an event, you guys could at least provide a few decent disaster scenes.

 

[Astronuc]

I just checked the basement sump, and it's taking two streams of water, each about a gal/min. That then is pumped out to the right of way along the street, which is now a pond. Better to have a pond in the front yard than in the basement.

 

[RonL]

Me too. If I have to watch this much news coverage of an event, you guys could at least provide a few decent disaster scenes.

http://www.fema.gov/news/disaster_totals_annual.fema

Pick your year, pick your state, pick your disaster, go to pictures and look to your hearts content.
While every disaster is different, they all look much the same.

Much wisdom by most and a storm that fell apart (thank goodness) premature, the major damage will be flooding inland.