Hi-way Access to ME & Africa thr' Pakistan

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the potential for Pakistan to serve as a transit route for China to access Central Asian markets and energy sources, specifically through the development of a trade and energy corridor involving Gwadar port. Participants explore the feasibility of this route, its economic implications, and the geopolitical context surrounding it.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants highlight the strategic importance of Pakistan acting as a transit facility for China, potentially shortening the route for crude oil imports from Iran and Africa.
  • Others express skepticism about the feasibility of constructing a land route across rugged terrain, citing geographical challenges.
  • There are conflicting views on the implications of this development for U.S. control over oil passage to China, with some questioning which straits are being referred to.
  • Several participants discuss the technicalities of the Pakistan-China border, with some asserting that they do share a border while others reference a UN map that appears to suggest otherwise.
  • The existence of the Karakoram Highway is mentioned, with some participants suggesting improvements could facilitate commercial use despite its current limitations.
  • There is a suggestion that rail transport might be more practical than highway transport for energy resources, reflecting a preference for minimizing energy consumption.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of agreement and disagreement regarding the feasibility of the proposed route, the geopolitical implications, and the technical details of the border between Pakistan and China. No consensus is reached on these points.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the reliance on varying map interpretations and the unresolved complexities surrounding the geopolitical status of Jammu and Kashmir, which may affect the discussion of the border between Pakistan and China.

Polly
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Hi guys, how are you doing? (This is not a troll :biggrin: o:) )

First of all, my apologies if this post does not satisfy any of your guidelines, I am posting it chiefly to satisfy my own curiosity and secondly to alert you to a not insignificant development between China and Pakistan.

I read from a Chinese http://www.6park.com/news/messages/30431.html".

Pakistan wants to act as a transit facility, giving China access to Central Asian markets and energy sources, said visiting President Pervez Musharraf.

　　“We are interested in setting up a trade and energy corridor for China,” he told the China Daily. He was referring to Gwadar port on the Arabian Sea coast in the province of Balochistan. Crude oil imports from Iran and Africa can be transported from there by land to the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region in China’s northwest. Musharraf said the route, currently the subject of a feasibility study, is much shorter than going via the Straits of Malacca as happens at present.

You will see from the http://worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/as.htm" that great distance will be saved in terms of accessing ME and Africa from the western part of China. Conceivably it will be a great boon to the economic development of the area and it will also mean the US control of the oil passage to China through the Strait is undermined.

The question I want to raise is, have any of you heard anything about it from your media? In either case, I thank you, and just thought I should alert you guys about this development.
 
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Polly, that map does not do justice to the difficulties involved in building and traversing a land route across several hundreds of miles of the most rugged terrain in the world.

So, as an additional resource :

http://ace.acadiau.ca/arts/crel/Matthews/website%20images/Asia%20map%20general.jpg
 
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Thanks Polly,
It's funny that a Bush...err I mean supposedly US friend is getting friendly with China and undermining possible US tactics in this way.
 
Hi Gokul :smile: :smile: :smile: Long time no see! Greetings!
 
Hey I got another map, it's actually not that infeasible except in the bordering area.

http://www.vista-tourism.com/map.htm

http://www.un.org/Depts/Cartographic/map/profile/pakistan.pdf
(a bit slow)
 
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Five or six hundred miles as the crow flies, maybe a thousand following the water gaps on the river systems, at a nickel to dime a ton mile vs. tenths of a cent a ton mile for VLCCs --- economics say it's a "no-go." As far as "U.S. control of straits" on sea lanes to China, which strait(s) are you talking about? Hormuz? Iranian and Saudi(?) territorial waters, with an international strip. Ma(o)la(u)cca? Same game, different countries (Malay(si)a, Indonesia).
 
Polly said:
Hey I got another map, it's actually not that infeasible except in the bordering area.

http://www.vista-tourism.com/map.htm

http://www.un.org/Depts/Cartographic/map/profile/pakistan.pdf
(a bit slow)
Greetings Polly,

There's another possibly big difficulty I didn't mention in my previous post. As a hint, I suggest to look again at the UN map you linked - which shows that China and Pakistan do not share a border !
 
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Gokul43201 said:
Greetings Polly,

There's another possibly big difficulty I didn't mention in my previous post. As a hint, I suggest to look again at the UN map you linked - which shows that China and Pakistan do not share a border !
If you look at other maps it plainly shows a shared border. That UN map is a bit confusing and I'm not sure if it's more accurate or maybe the amount of detail sort of obscures clear definition of the ME borders.
 
  • #10
There's another possibly big difficulty I didn't mention in my previous post. As a hint, I suggest to look again at the UN map you linked - which shows that China and Pakistan do not share a border !

Off course they do! Its not exactly the easiest pass in the world ie over the roof of the world but they share a border
 
  • #11
Gokul43201 said:
Greetings Polly,

There's another possibly big difficulty I didn't mention in my previous post. As a hint, I suggest to look again at the UN map you linked - which shows that China and Pakistan do not share a border !
The two regions bordering China are the Jammu region and the Kashmir region. The Jammu region is under Pakistani control.

The highway already exists, even though it's far from the equivalent of a US interstate (as should be obvious from Polly's pictures). The highway follows the river up from Gilgit and across the divide to China. Here's a more simplistic map showing the route - (The Karakoram Highway)

The effort is to improve the highway to the point that it can be a commercial thoroughfare (and hopefully reduce the number of closures due to rock slides).

If you lived in that region, now would be the time to get in a few trips while it's still in a more primitive state. The area looks pretty awesome.
 
  • #12
Hey, I'm not saying that Pakistan and China do not share a border. I was merely using the technical discrepancy in the UN map to hint at the possible geopolitical complications involved. But seeing as how there already exist highways in this region, my point is moot.
 
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  • #13
Well, the technicality of the Pakistan-China border revolves around whether or not Jammu (part of Jammu & Kashmir) is considered part of Pakistan.

Even with that resolved, I have to wonder about the efficacy of using a highway through the Hindu Kush. Rail (container) would perhaps be more practical - but that is my own personal bias - I like to minimize energy consumption.

Well, they have to go through either India or Pakistan, otherwise there is Myanmar. Any other route involves more than one nation (e.g Laos/Thailand) or (India/Bangladesh), and that increases potential for disruption.
 
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