How Aeroplanes Fly: Deriving Equations for Lift Force

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of equations related to the lift force experienced by aeroplanes, specifically focusing on the equation \(\frac{1}{2}\rho v^{2}AC_{L}\). Participants explore the theoretical and experimental foundations of this equation, seeking clarity on whether it is derived analytically or primarily through experimentation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses a need to derive the lift equation for a report, indicating a theoretical understanding of lift force but seeking mathematical derivation.
  • Another participant claims that the equation has emerged from experimentation, suggesting that a basic Fluid Mechanics book could provide background information.
  • A different viewpoint questions the reliance on experimentation, proposing that the derivation involves analyzing a small volume of air traveling above and below the wing at constant pressure.
  • Concerns are raised about the varying explanations found in different sources regarding the derivation of lift equations, highlighting a lack of consensus.
  • One participant explains that the equation was derived through experimentation and dimensional analysis, noting that the lift coefficient \(C_L\) is a dimensionless term that complicates the derivation.
  • Another participant mentions that while the kinetic energy of air can be derived easily, deriving the lift coefficient is significantly more complex.
  • It is noted that there is no general analytical solution for lift on a given airfoil, and that the lift coefficient often requires experimental determination.
  • Links to resources on thin airfoil theory and NACA computations for thick airfoils are shared, indicating that analytical results may be available under specific conditions.
  • Several participants recommend texts and resources for further reading on the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion reflects multiple competing views on the derivation of the lift equation, with no clear consensus on whether it is primarily derived analytically or experimentally. Participants express uncertainty regarding the complexity of deriving the lift coefficient and the applicability of different theories.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention various assumptions and conditions under which the lift equation may be derived, including the dependence on airfoil shape, flow velocity, and angle of attack. The discussion highlights the limitations of existing resources and the complexity of the topic.

billy92
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I am currently looking into how aeroplanes fly for a report which i am writing.

I understand the theory behind the lift force produced by different pressures above and below the wing. However, i need to use equations which i can show how to derive in the report.

I have found the following equation \frac{1}{2}ρv^{2}AC_{L} but i am not sure how to derive this equation.

Thanks
 
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There is no lengthy derivation process behind this equation. It has emerged from experimentation. Still if you want to read some background about it, pick any basic level Fluid Mechanics book.
 
are you sure it's experimentation?
I thought it was using a tiny volume of air (dV), and having it travel above/below the wing at constant pressure?
but yah, look at the first or second (since the first usually deals with units, SI, and stuff like that) chapter of your fluid dynamics book (or the 12th(ish) chapter of a good introductory physics book)
 
The problem is each place i look has different answers to my problem which is making it difficult for me to find out if any lift equations for planes are derived, or just calculated experimentally.
 
The equation was found using experimentation, finding the variables of a system that impact the lift and drag forces the most, and using dimensional analysis (basically it's mixing up variables with SI units that are known that eventually all cancel out to give you a term with no units, or a constant value). In this case, the coefficient of lift, CL, is the dimensionless term. The 1/2 was kind of a 'fudge factor' that made the dimensional analysis match up with the experimentation, from what I understand.

This is what I've understood from my Fluid Mechanics course. I, of course, am willing to concede if I have misrepresented the origin of the equation.
 
The first part is just kinetic energy of air, which can be derived relatively easily. But lift coefficient can only be derived with extreme difficulty.
 
The problem is that there is no general, analytical solution for the lift on a given airfoil. The equation incorporating the lift coefficient is an empirical relation that uses the lift coefficient, C_L, to simplify the math, but finding that coefficient is something that often has to be done experimentally. In the situations where it can be done analytically, it would be just as easy to calculate the lift directly.

C_L itself is a complicated quantity, as it depends often on the flow velocity, the angle of attack, the density of the air and the shape of the airfoil.
 
Thin airfoil theory can give you analytical results:
http://www.desktop.aero/appliedaero/airfoils1/tatderivation.html

of course this only applies to thin airfoils
 
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  • #10
Introduction to Flight by Anderson is a good introductory text.
 
  • #11
about the topic, which is a good share .thanks!
 
  • #12
for thick airfoils, its about naca computations...
 
  • #13
for thick airfoils, its about naca computations...
... for which you have Abbott and von Doenhoff's 'theory of wing sections'.
 
  • #14
http://www.infoocean.info/avatar2.jpg There is no lengthy derivation process behind this equation.
 
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