How are positrons used for fusion propulsion?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the use of positrons in fusion propulsion systems, specifically focusing on the claims made by Positron Dynamics regarding their technology and mechanisms for catalyzing fusion reactions. Participants explore the theoretical underpinnings and feasibility of these claims, including the production of pions and kaons from positron annihilation.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants discuss Positron Dynamics' approach of using Na-22 as a source of positrons and their patented moderator that reportedly improves efficiency in cooling positrons.
  • There is mention of the proposed mechanism where positron annihilation could produce gamma rays that might induce fusion, although this is met with skepticism.
  • Another perspective suggests that positron annihilation could produce pions and kaons, which would then decay into muons to catalyze fusion, though this raises questions about energy conservation and feasibility due to the mass-energy requirements of pions and kaons.
  • Participants express doubt about the plausibility of creating pions and kaons from positron annihilation, citing the energy constraints involved.
  • There is a call for plausible mechanisms for how positrons could catalyze fusion, indicating a lack of clarity in the claims made by Positron Dynamics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally express skepticism regarding the feasibility of the proposed mechanisms for positron-induced fusion, particularly the creation of pions and kaons. There is no consensus on a plausible mechanism for catalyzing fusion using positrons, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in the understanding of the proposed mechanisms and the energy requirements for the reactions discussed. There are unresolved questions about the validity of the claims made by Positron Dynamics and the implications of their technology.

Ozne
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Hi,
I recently came across Positron Dynamics, a company working on a fusion propulsion system.
You can watch this presentation given at Breakthrough Discuss 2018. They also got a grant from NIAC.
Rather than trying to create and store positrons, they use Na-22 as a source. They also patented, built and tested a moderator to cool the positrons (they claim 60% efficiency compared to current 0.7%).
The positrons are then used to catalyze fusion (I'll get to that) in a "dense state of deuterium" in a metal lattice. The resulting charged particles are used for propulsion with magnetic nozzles while the neutrons are used to create more Na-22 from Kr-78.
In spite of the use of the metal lattice, this is not a cold fusion concept as the ignition is supposed to be provided by the positrons.
Now, how are positrons supposed to catalyze a D-D fusion reaction ? A previous thread in this forum seems to be skeptical about this.
At 7:43 of the video I mention they seem to indicate that the gamma rays from the annihilation can induce fusion directly (by heating ?). However, in another place (linked from their web page, scroll down), the mechanism seems to be quite different (at least to me and my limited knowledge) and strange. Here the positron annihilation is supposed to produce pions and kaons. The latter decay into muons that then catalyze the fusion reaction. This is a surprise to me since I always thought that the annihilation produced gamma rays. Maybe this other reaction is less likely but still useful for propulsion. I don't know.
Any ideas ? Is this plausible/possible ?
Thanks.
 
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Ozne said:
Here the positron annihilation is supposed to produce pions and kaons.

That's going to be tough since the total energy from the annihilation is just over 1 MeV (positron mass + electron mass--kinetic energy is negligible since the positrons and electrons are basically at room temperature), but pions mass about 139 MeV and kaons mass about 495 MeV. (And to satisfy conservation laws you would need to produce a pion-antipion or kaon-antikaon pair, doubling the energy required.)

Ozne said:
Is this plausible/possible ?

Don't think so. See above.
 
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Thanks.
Soon after posting this I found this other thread which shares :
  • your skepticism about kaon creation (see the very last post). But why would Positron Dynamics link to this in the last link in their web page ?
  • my perplexity about the mechanism of a positron inducing/catalyzing fusion. There is something clearly missing in their talks about this fundamental point,
Again, if someone has a plausible mechanism for the latter, feel free to share it.
 
Ozne said:
Soon after posting this I found this other thread

We can't comment on discussion threads in other forums.

Ozne said:
why would Positron Dynamics link to this in the last link in their web page ?

I have no idea. We can't speculate on their motives.

Ozne said:
if someone has a plausible mechanism for the latter

There isn't going to be one, given the obvious flaw I've already stated with the proposal.

Thread closed.
 

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