How Can Both Jets from a Black Hole Appear to Move Faster Than Light?

  • Context: Stargazing 
  • Thread starter Thread starter K. Doc Holiday
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the phenomenon of relativistic jets emitted from black holes, specifically addressing the observation that both jets can appear to move faster than the speed of light. Participants explore the implications of this observation and the concept of superluminal motion, questioning the conditions under which such appearances occur.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that relativistic jets from black holes can be observed moving at speeds between 300% to 3,000% faster than light, questioning the validity of this observation.
  • Another participant challenges the claim of superluminal speeds, stating that nothing can move faster than light and expressing skepticism about the initial claim.
  • Some participants propose that only jets moving at a small angle toward the observer appear superluminal, suggesting that the angle of motion affects visibility and perceived speed.
  • There is a request for clarification on the source of the claim regarding jets moving faster than light, indicating a need for evidence or references to support such assertions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the claim of jets moving faster than light, with some questioning the validity of the observation and others attempting to clarify the conditions under which superluminal motion is perceived. The discussion remains unresolved with competing viewpoints on the nature of the jets' speeds.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the definitions of superluminal motion and the conditions under which jets are observed. The discussion does not clarify the mathematical or observational basis for the claims made.

K. Doc Holiday
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If my memory serves me correctly current theory says that the relativistic jets shooting out from a black hole (I assume perpendicular to the event horizon) are pointed in opposite directions. That means if one is pointed directly at us the other must be aimed directly away from us.

Superluminosity is a term created in an attempt to dismiss the empirical (visual) data we collect regarding relativistic jets. The majority of jets are seen traveling faster than the speed of light. Not 10% faster. Somewhere between 300% to 3,000% faster.

Superluminosity assumes this is an optical illusion which occurs when a jet is pointed directly at earth. So, here is my question:

How is it that both jets from a black hole appear to go faster than light, which is true for most pairs of jets?

Shouldn't one be "superluminous" and the other invisible? A jet heading away from us at 99% of the speed of light shouldn't be visible let alone "superluminous" right?

Once again I apologize for my stupid questions and i appreciate your patience.

Sincerely
Doc
 
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K. Doc Holiday said:
The majority of jets are seen traveling faster than the speed of light. Not 10% faster. Somewhere between 300% to 3,000% faster.
Huh? Where did you see/read this? Things do NOT move faster than light so I'm not sure what you might be talking about.
 
K. Doc Holiday said:
How is it that both jets from a black hole appear to go faster than light, which is true for most pairs of jets?

Shouldn't one be "superluminous" and the other invisible? A jet heading away from us at 99% of the speed of light shouldn't be visible let alone "superluminous" right?

I believe it's only the jets that are moving at a small angle toward us that appear to be superluminal.

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SpeedOfLight/Superluminal/superluminal.html
https://ned.ipac.caltech.edu/level5/ESSAYS/Cohen/cohen.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superluminal_motion
 
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