Material source of the quasar redshift

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of quasar redshift, the sources of light emitted by quasars, and the implications of metallicity in relation to their accretion processes. Participants explore the complexities involved in determining redshift and the characteristics of quasars compared to blazars, focusing on theoretical and observational aspects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the light from a quasar primarily comes from its jets of accelerated material, suggesting that this could complicate redshift determination.
  • Another participant clarifies that the light is principally emitted from the accretion disk rather than the jets, distinguishing quasars from blazars.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of blueshifted and redshifted jets on the observed spectrum, with one participant expressing concern about the potential obscuration of the redshifted spectrum by the blueshifted jet.
  • Participants discuss the metallicity of quasars, with one suggesting that it reflects the material they are currently consuming rather than primordial constituents, and another affirming that black holes have no hair, making it impossible to know their constituent materials.
  • One participant expresses surprise at the role of the accretion disk in quasar brightness, indicating a need for further understanding.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants show some agreement on the source of light from quasars being the accretion disk, but there is disagreement regarding the implications of jets on redshift measurements and the interpretation of metallicity. The discussion remains unresolved on several points, particularly concerning the complexities of redshift determination.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge limitations in understanding the dynamics of quasar jets and their impact on redshift, as well as the challenges in interpreting metallicity readings in relation to black hole constituents.

CosmologyHobbyist
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When we look at quasar redshift, are we looking at the redshift of the blueshifted jet pointed toward us?
When I see discussions about quasar redshift, exactly what are they talking about? I assume a quasar is similar to a black hole, so emits little radiation from the main mass. The light from a quasar comes principally from its jets of accelerated material, no? Which means the jet pointed toward us is blueshifted and the jet pointed away from us is redshifted, no? And the blueshifted jet would be extra-energized by the blueshift, so would probably obscure the red-shifted jet's spectrum, no? So doesn't all this make determining quasar redshift a complicated affair?

And on a tangentally related note, wouldn't quasar metallicity simply reflect what they are currently devouring, not the primordial black hole constituent materials? So does that mean metallicity issues concerning quasars, means no galactic cores should have second-generation stars by that time period in the universe? And determining the universe timeframe of the quasar is much dependent on accurately determining its redshift with the issues above?

When I see discussion about quasar redshifts, it appears that the redshift is being used raw without regard to the high degree of falsification owing to the way it is generated. Are all the adjustments handled behind the scenes and taken for granted? If not, then we should assume most quasars are highly blueshifted, which makes their deep redshifts even more puzzling. But as a layman, I assume I am missing the fundamentals of the picture, thus my question. "When we look at quasar redshift, are we looking at the redshift of the blueshifted jet pointed toward us?"
 
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CosmologyHobbyist said:
The light from a quasar comes principally from its jets of accelerated material, no?
No, it's principally from the accretion disk. What you seem to be thinking of is not quasars, but blazars - i.e. the relatively rare quasars with their jet beam directed towards Earth.
CosmologyHobbyist said:
Which means the jet pointed toward us is blueshifted and the jet pointed away from us is redshifted, no? And the blueshifted jet would be extra-energized by the blueshift, so would probably obscure the red-shifted jet's spectrum, no? So doesn't all this make determining quasar redshift a complicated affair?
Remember that quasars are extended objects, not point sources. One can find the redshift of the host galaxy by blocking the central region of the aperture.

CosmologyHobbyist said:
And on a tangentally related note, wouldn't quasar metallicity simply reflect what they are currently devouring, not the primordial black hole constituent materials?
Yes. One can never know the black hole constituent materials anyway, because black holes have no hair.
But I don't quite get the rest of the question.
 
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Hi Bandersnatch, Great name.
Thanks for your answers, and yes I suppose I am talking blazars. I did some reading on related threads below, and found the material jets only move at 1/10 the speed of light, which won't falsify the redshift much. I thought they moved at relativistic speeds, which even then wouldn't much affect readings from high-redshift blazars.
 
About metallicity, yes black holes have no hair, meaning we can never determine what constituents went into it. So all metallicity readings are coming from the accretion disk.
 
So you say quasar light comes from the accetion disk being consumed? Hm, that news to me. And that explains their great brightness? Wow, that's going to take some digesting...
 
Thanks again for refining my understanding.
 

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