How Can Degenerate Perturbation Theory Help Identify Zero Order Eigenstates?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of degenerate perturbation theory in quantum mechanics, specifically focusing on identifying zero order eigenstates in the context of degenerate states. Participants explore the implications of a degenerate spectrum and how it relates to the representation of operators by matrices.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about finding a "good" zero order eigenstate when states remain degenerate after applying perturbation theory.
  • Another participant asks for clarification on what it means for an operator to have a degenerate spectrum and how this can be observed in matrix representation.
  • Some participants suggest that any basis can be used in the degenerate subspace if the perturbation does not lift the degeneracy.
  • A "degenerate spectrum" is described as a situation where at least one eigenvalue occurs multiple times, which also applies to the matrix representation of the operator.
  • It is noted that knowing the eigenvalue alone does not provide sufficient information to determine the corresponding state.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying degrees of understanding regarding the implications of degeneracy and the use of bases in degenerate subspaces. Some points are clarified, but no consensus is reached on the best approach to identifying zero order eigenstates in persistent degeneracy.

Contextual Notes

Participants discuss the limitations of their understanding regarding the physical implications of a degenerate spectrum and how it affects the identification of states. There are unresolved questions about the conditions under which perturbations lift degeneracy.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and researchers interested in quantum mechanics, particularly those studying perturbation theory and the properties of degenerate states.

hermitian
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Hi,

I know that for degenerate states, we need to apply degenerate perturbation theory by looking at the perturbative hamiltonian in the subspace of the degenerate states.

What then if the states still degenerate after we cast them the generate subspace. Is there a way to find the zero order 'good' eigenstate?

Thanks.
 
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I borrow this thread to ask a question that is similar to this one.
What does it mean that an operator has a degenarate spectrum and how can we see that if the operator is represented by a matrix. Thanx a lot and I hope I'm not stepping on anybodys toe by using this thread.
 
Welcome to the forum, hermitian!

I believe you can use any basis you like in the subspace if the perturbation does not lift the degeneracy.

A "degenerate spectrum" means that at least one eigenvalue occurs more than once. This would then also be true of the matrix representing the operator.
 
Avodyne said:
Welcome to the forum, hermitian!

I believe you can use any basis you like in the subspace if the perturbation does not lift the degeneracy.

A "degenerate spectrum" means that at least one eigenvalue occurs more than once. This would then also be true of the matrix representing the operator.

thnx that helped a lot. Let me see if I got this right: Eigenvalues are the observables and the eigenvectors are the states of the system. what would degenerate spectrum mean physically.

thnx
 
It would mean that knowing the eigenvalue is not sufficient information to determine the state.
 
thanks Avodyne,

i spend sometime to convince myself that I can use any basis I like in the degenerate subspace...
 

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