How Can Empty Space Be Curved?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of how empty space can be curved, particularly in the context of general relativity and the implications of mass on the geometry of space. Participants explore the definitions and interpretations of space, curvature, and the mathematical frameworks involved.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how empty space, defined as "nothing," can be curved, suggesting that the notion of curvature may be a simplification.
  • Another participant argues that "space is curved" is a poor description, asserting that while space itself is a dimension, the properties of space-time lead to behaviors that appear curved from a Euclidean perspective, with actual movement occurring along geodesics in Riemann geometry.
  • A different viewpoint suggests that the curvature of space can be understood through the influence of massive objects, such as the sun, which can bend space and affect the path of light.
  • One participant notes that the term "curved" implies a departure from Euclidean geometry, raising further questions about why empty space would adhere to those rules.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of space and curvature, with no consensus reached on the definitions or implications of these concepts. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the interpretation of curvature in the context of empty space.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not fully defined key terms such as "curvature" and "empty space," leading to potential ambiguities in the discussion. The mathematical properties of space-time and their implications are also not exhaustively explored.

Hankb
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Hello,
I just joined. I have no formal background in physics, just curiosity. So, my questions may well be simplistic to most of you. Hopefully, that is permissible, now and then! First question, if space, as it's usually defined, is empty, nothing, how can it be curved?
Hankb
 
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Hankb said:
Hello,
I just joined. I have no formal background in physics, just curiosity. So, my questions may well be simplistic to most of you. Hopefully, that is permissible, now and then! First question, if space, as it's usually defined, is empty, nothing, how can it be curved?
Hankb
"space is curved" is a very poor (pop-science) way of describing what happens. I agree w/ you that space is just a dimension, not something that you (or anything) can bend, but space-time has mathematical properties that make things traveling in it ACT from the point of view of Euclidean Geometry, as though they are moving in a curve. In reality they are moving in a straight line (more properly a geodesic) but they are doing so in Riemann Geometry (which is the proper geometry to use in space-time) so that we humans, who instinctively think in Euclidean terms, see them as "curved".

It was this "bending" of light rays that completely confirmed Einstein's Theory of General Relativity.

By the way, welcome to the forum.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hankb said:
If space, as it's usually defined, is empty, nothing, how can it be curved?
"Curved" just means that it doesn't follow the rules of Euclidean geometry. So you could just as well ask, why empty space should follow those rules.
 
You could say that it is curving , just by knowing that a huge mass could make the space curve .
The most common example of the space curving is our sun , as we know that it has a huge mass , it curved the space , thus making it possible for us to so the light of the stars behind it . Even if we are seeing their light , they are not actually there ...
 

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