How can I prove that a sequence converges to a limit for every epsilon?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the concept of proving the convergence of a sequence to a limit in the context of real analysis, specifically addressing the formal definition involving epsilon (ε). Participants explore the implications of defining N as a function of ε and how this relates to the requirement that the proof must hold for every ε > 0.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about reconciling the definition of convergence with the process of finding N as a function of ε, questioning how this can account for all ε.
  • Another participant asks whether N was found for a specific value of ε or for any ε > 0, prompting further clarification on the nature of ε in the proof.
  • A participant suggests that while one can find N for a particular ε, the definition requires that ε be treated as fixed during the proof, leading to a potential misunderstanding of the generality required.
  • It is noted that the wording of the proof may be ambiguous, but the logic behind treating ε as a fixed value in the context of the proof is considered sound by some participants.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the interpretation of ε in the context of the proof. There are differing views on whether it is appropriate to treat ε as fixed when finding N, and the ambiguity in the wording of the proof is acknowledged.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of understanding the distinction between treating ε as a specific value versus a general variable, which may affect the validity of the proof approach. The discussion reflects the nuances in formal definitions in real analysis.

FallenApple
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Ok, I'm reviewing my real analysis and found a point of confusion.

So for a sequence S(n) to converge to S, for every e>0 there exists N such that n>N implies |S(n)-S|<e.

Ok that makes sense. However when I backsolve and find N as a function of epsilon, and then formally proving forwards,

I'm supposed to use the statement, Given e>0, let N(e). Then for any n>N(e), we have |S(n)-S|<eBasically, I found N as a function of a specific epsilon, and that is somehow accounting for all of the epsilions? Because the original statement is for every epsilon>0. I can only show that it works for one of them.

How to reconcile this?

Is it because once N is a function of e, then for fixed e, n>N(e) wouldn't work anymore? I must say that for any n>N(e) since now n must vary based off of e?

So basically its an application of this: for every A there exists a B <=> for every B there exists an A.
 
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FallenApple said:
However when I backsolve and find N as a function of epsilon, and then formally proving forwards,

I'm supposed to use the statement, Given e>0, let N(e). Then for any n>N(e), we have |S(n)-S|<eBasically, I found N as a function of a specific epsilon, and that is somehow accounting for all of the epsilions?
When you back-solved to find N as a function of ε, did you do it for a particular value of ε or for any ε > 0?
 
FactChecker said:
When you back-solved to find N as a function of ε, did you do it for a particular value of ε or for any ε > 0?
Well it was for any I suppose. I mean if I want to find convergence of 1/n, setting N=1/e will solve the problem. And e is not a particular numeric value.

But by back solving, you have to logically assume that e is fixed. Because it said for "any" e there exists an N such that n>N...

So I pick epsilon= e. Then I can find an N(e). such that n>N(e).

Going forward, I can only say for e>0, where N=N(e). So its for this particular e.
 
FallenApple said:
Well it was for any I suppose. I mean if I want to find convergence of 1/n, setting N=1/e will solve the problem. And e is not a particular numeric value.

But by back solving, you have to logically assume that e is fixed. Because it said for "any" e there exists an N such that n>N...
You can think of this as "for any fixed e, there exists ...". I say that, because in the rest of that section of the proof, you assume that e represents the same number everywhere it appears. The most important word is "any".
The wording of the proof may be a little ambiguous, but the logic is sound and the wording is an accepted standard.
 
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FactChecker said:
You can think of this as "for any fixed e, there exists ...". I say that, because in the rest of that section of the proof, you assume that e represents the same number everywhere it appears. The most important word is "any".
The wording of the proof may be a little ambiguous, but the logic is sound and the wording is an accepted standard.

Ah got it. Thanks.
 

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