A How can I take the derivative?

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The discussion focuses on calculating the functional derivative of the action S with respect to the time derivative of the field, ∂tΦ. The initial variation leads to a form involving the metric and the field's derivatives, but the proper definition of the functional derivative concerning ∂tΦ remains unclear. Participants explore the relationship between canonical momentum and the action, noting that the standard definition of momentum involves the Lagrangian's dependence on the field and its derivatives. There is uncertainty about how to formalize the functional derivative, particularly in the context of field theory, and whether properties of functional derivatives can facilitate this process. The conversation highlights the complexities of defining such derivatives in a rigorous manner within the framework of globally hyperbolic spacetimes.
etotheipi
The action considered is \begin{align*}
S[\Phi] = \int_M dt d^3 x \sqrt{-g} \left( -\frac{1}{2}g^{ab} \partial_a \Phi \partial_b \Phi - \frac{1}{2}m^2 \Phi^2\right)
\end{align*}I can "see" unrigorously that variation with respect to ##\partial_t \Phi(x)## it is going to be\begin{align*}
\frac{\delta S}{\delta(\partial_t \Phi(x))} &= -\frac{1}{2}\sqrt{-g} g^{ab} \frac{\delta}{\delta(\partial_t \Phi(x))} \left( \partial_a \Phi \partial_b \Phi \right) \\

&= -\frac{1}{2}\sqrt{-g} g^{ab} \cdot 2 \partial_a \Phi \delta^t_b \\

&= -\sqrt{-g} g^{at} \partial_a \Phi \\

&= \sqrt{h} n^{a} \partial_a \Phi
\end{align*}How do I do this calculation properly? For instance to find the functional variation with respect to ##\Phi## I could consider ##\lim_{\epsilon \rightarrow 0} \frac{1}{\epsilon}\left( S[\Phi + \epsilon \alpha] - S[\Phi] \right)##. But how do I write it when considering the functional derivative of ##S## with respect to ##\partial_t \Phi##; do I let the action have a second argument ##S = S[\Phi, \partial_a \Phi]## and proceed from there?
 
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Why do you need such a strange derivative? I don't really see how such a derivative would be defined, maybe if you give me some more context I can help
 
##(M, g_{ab})## is a globally hyperbolic spacetime and the metric is here written ##ds^2 = -N^2 dt^2 + h_{ij} (dx^i + N^i dt)(dx^j + N^j dt)## with ##t## a global time coordinate labelling the cauchy surfaces ##\Sigma_t## of normal ##-N(dt)_a## and induced metric ##h_{ab}##, such that ##\sqrt{-g} = N\sqrt{h}##.

The aim is to find the canonical momentum ##\Pi(x)## conjugate to ##\Phi## by varying ##S## with respect to ##\partial_t \Phi(x)##
 
Ok, usually when one has an action of the form
$$S = \int \mathscr{L}(\Phi, \partial_\mu \Phi, t) d^4 x$$
the canonical momentum is defined as
$$\Pi(x)=\frac{\partial \mathscr{L}(\Phi, \partial_\mu \Phi, t)}{\partial(\partial_0\Phi)}$$
This one is almost immediate to compute and indeed gives the answer you have in #1. But, otherwise, I don't know how one is supposed to define something like
$$\frac{\delta S[\Phi]}{\delta (\partial_0 \Phi)}$$
At first, something like that seems nonsensical to me, but maybe there's a way to properly define such a thing...
 
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Yeah, it's a bit strange. Landau & Lifshitz explained similar sorts of things, e.g. varying the action with respect to the co-ordinates (i.e. considering only admissible trajectories between ##a \longrightarrow b## and keeping ##(\delta x^i)_a = 0## but ##(\delta x^i)_b## variable) then you can show that$$\delta S = -mcu_i \delta x^i \implies p_i = - \frac{\partial S}{\partial x^i}$$so the time-component of the momentum four-vector would just be ##p_t = - \partial S / \partial t##.

I figured the motivation for ##\Pi(x) = \delta S / \delta (\partial_t \Phi)## in the OP would be analogous to that but I don't know how to formalise that at all. I don't know any field theory, really :frown:
 
Indeed, now that I think about it, since functional derivatives have the chain rule, maybe we can write it like
$$\frac{\delta S[\Phi]}{\delta (\partial_0 \Phi)} = \frac{\delta S[\Phi]}{\delta \Phi}\frac{\delta \Phi}{\delta (\partial_0 \Phi)}$$
Then the first derivative is the usual one that is used to derive E-L equations, the problem is the second term.
We know that $$\frac{\delta (\partial_0 \Phi)(y)}{\delta \Phi(x)}=-\partial_0 \delta^{(4)}(x-y),$$ but I don't know if there exists a property for functional derivatives that allow us to invert this, similar to normal derivatives.
 
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The Poynting vector is a definition, that is supposed to represent the energy flow at each point. Unfortunately, the only observable effect caused by the Poynting vector is through the energy variation in a volume subject to an energy flux through its surface, that is, the Poynting theorem. As a curl could be added to the Poynting vector without changing the Poynting theorem, it can not be decided by EM only that this should be the actual flow of energy at each point. Feynman, commenting...

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