Dismiss Notice
Join Physics Forums Today!
The friendliest, high quality science and math community on the planet! Everyone who loves science is here!

How comes the big bang singularity didn't need space and time?

  1. Feb 26, 2012 #1
    Obviously before the big bang there was no space and no time, so how comes the big bang singularity itself existed without space and time? do black holes' singularities not need space and time to exist too? or at least in order for them to come and exist there has to be space and time at first place
  2. jcsd
  3. Feb 26, 2012 #2
    I am not an expert in the field. As far, i have read from this forum nothing is known about the state of the universe at T = 0. However there are models or hypothesis about the state of the universe at the very beginning. Same with the black hole. At best from what i have read here, the universe was in a very dense state.

    And singularity does not have explanatory power that gives us an understanding of the beginning of universe or inside a black hole.
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2012
  4. Feb 26, 2012 #3

    Here is a relevant excerpt that might be viewed as self-contradictory.

  5. Feb 26, 2012 #4


    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    Singularity means "we have no clue" in science speak. We need a theory of quantum gravity to rid ourselves of those enigmatic singularities. But, even that is unlikely to be enough to explain the origin of the universe. Even cyclical models merely defer the question backwards in time. Perhaps the universe has always existed in some form or another, even though that is not much of an answer. Sort of like saying you came from your parents [but, where did your parents come from?] Just about every imaginable explanation is probably unprovable. It's natures version of Godel's incompleteness theorem.
  6. Mar 5, 2012 #5
    The Universe was initially in a hot dense state. That's where the theories and evidence are very clear.

    This doesn't mean it was a singularity.
    If the Universe is infinite, that hot dense state was also infinite.
    If the Universe is finite, in the initial state it must have been small. However even in this case the current theories don't go all the way to a singularity.
  7. Mar 15, 2012 #6
    But a good answer. It would be nice to know how the universe works and what its future holds. Where it came from seems less important.
  8. Mar 15, 2012 #7
    "Origin" is a useful word for mortals. Probably not such a useful concept when trying to figure out the universe. There are many blocks to understanding this - language is just one of them (but a big one, i think). i realize this explanation is not scientific, but i think it's something worth considering.
Share this great discussion with others via Reddit, Google+, Twitter, or Facebook